If there was ever a game where flipping the script on the turnover story for the 2025 Packers would help, this one's it.

As solid as this defense has been, it's been a minute since there's been a defensive turnover play that made the scoreboard.

Today's as good a day as any, with Winston perhaps willing to add to the cause.

At any rate, just win the damn game.

A local Wisconsin newspaper confirmed that Havrisik will be the Packers' kicker today. McManus is out with a strained quad.

I have been unable to find any report that McManus reinjured his quad. This seems to be the same quad injury that has plagued him most of the season. If so, why the heck was McManus doing the kicking the last few weeks? Havrisik is perfect in field goals and PATs so far this year and he was available for activation. Yet the coaching staff (Bisaccia? LaFleur?) chose to use the injured kicker.

What would the Packers' record be if Havrisik made most or all of the kicks McManus missed over the last few weeks? Just another head scratching coaching decision made by the Packer "brain trust".

It's all about the kicker, bout the kicker (no returner)

I have been reading and listening to Cheesehead TV for at least 10 years now but had not taken the time to sign up and participate in the commentary.

I must say this comment below from "NFLfan" within the November 15, 2025 "Cory's Corner: Play The Best Players" is one of the most insightful – and accurate - comments I have read regarding the propaganda/public relations plants that the “suits”/stuffed shirts (in this case Gutekunst) in the corporate world employ to create narratives that deflect criticism and save their jobs:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

NFLfan

November 15, 2025 at 12:29 pm

There are 3 very vocal posters who will have the fans believe that the only problem be-deviling the Packers is the evil MLF followed by Jordan Love.

I used to be an active participant in one of the Prince (musician) forums and it was 'infiltrated' by what is known in the PR industry as 'cleaners'. These types are hired by celebrites, teams, etc to steer the narrative and tackle posters whom they deem a threat. We have about 3 on this site right about now. They give-off tell-tale signs and if you have experienced them before, they are fairly easy to recognize.Their current 'narrative' is MLF is 100% responsible for ALL of Green Bay's ills. Jordan Love is their target #2. They are actively trying to isolate MLF by relentless criticisms while they protect Gutekunst. Please note that when Gutekunst is critiqued, they rush in with lengthy, term papers about how MLF is somehow responsible.

MLF deserves criticism but he is NOT responsible for all of GB's ills. I don't like the bullying, under-mining behavior by these 3.

Notice that when Gutekunst is mentioned, all 3 of them swoop in to 'remind' us that he is completely guilt-free and MLF is the only villain.

I have reported these concerns to Aaron Nagler several days ago-I have not received a response.

I used to deeply respect one of these posters and am chagrined he decided to play this unfortunate game.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The criticism of Jordan – and especially Gutekunst – is warranted and Gutkekunst and Jordan are tied together at the hip - from Gutekunst's drafting of Jordan we have known that if Jordan is to fail as a QB capable of being a quarterback that makes a good team a Super Bowl winning team, Gutekunst never sees a NFL general management job again. And we already know that it has been the Packers team/players lifting Jordan, not Jordan lifting the team/players as Rodgers and early Favre did.

Lafleur is not the problem and an excellent head coach.

Lafleur’s first games with Rodgers starting (including playoffs): 44 wins, 13 losses, 77.2% winning %

Lafleur’s first games with Jordan starting (including playoffs): 24 wins, 20 losses, 1 tie, 54.4% winning %

(and the Jacksonville win should be credited to Malik Willlis)

Lafleur’s first games with Malik Willis starting: 2-0

Expect an easy win today in New York today against the 2-8 Giants that will allow the Gutekunst’s paid propagandists to return to the Jordan Love for NFL MVP talk and their ever present diversions created to prevent proper analysis of Gutekunst both in terms of his:

1) Enhancement or destruction of team chemistry, team morale, team veteran leadership and experience (i.e. I see little value in being the “youngest team in the NFL”)

2) Talent evaluation

Win or lose today, the Packers problems – Gutekunst at GM and Love at QB – remain the Packers biggest problems.

And I think we all have a pretty good idea of who the 3 “vocal posters” that NFLfan writes of. For years now they have appeared within seconds or minutes of a post critical of Gutekunst to jump on/”bully” the “poster” that is critiquing “Gutey”

The problem with this being a "get right" game for the Packers, is that it is the same for the Giants. Their interim coach is looking to make an impression, and has been in the conversation for HC vacancies in the league. This reminds me too much of the Cleveland and Carolina games, or even Cincy, where the Packers were heavily favored, but underperformed. And don't get me started with the Cowboys.
In short, the Giants are a team that seems to have a knack for doing enough to beat the Packers. This will be a nail biter, and if LaFleur doesn't allow the offense to get into an uptempo, unpredictable game plan, it could be another disappointment for the team and the fans.
The real question is whether MLF will remain stubborn, and run the ball even when it's apparent there is no chance of success. Or will he have more pre-snap movement, some play actions that will gain first downs on a regular basis and keep the defense guessing. Because at this point, the team's new brain trust will be looking closely at their team and making some decisions based not on the past, but on the present.

Win this game, go 6-3-1.

The people who seem to live to trash LaFleur (because that shows how astute they are) are hallucinating. The dude has 72 career wins in 6 1/2 years . The Great Shanahan only has 76 in 8 1/2 years. The Great McVay has 87 wins in 8 1/2 years. At his current pace, MLF will have nearly 90 wins in 8 seasons.. LaFleurs .665 win percentage is 14th all time and 3rd among active coaches.

And we should fire him and hand the reins over to a guy who has 9 games of NFL experience?

It's a safe bet to say the Packers will win today. They are the better team, and the Giants are reeling.

The question for this fan is how well they play. Will they do just enough to win, manage to overcome their unforced errors, and be happy with a W? Or will they look like a playoff team with an offense that executes, establishes some rhythm, and finishes drives?

Today is a Jacobs' rushing day. As I sit by my window here in New Jersey, I hear the wind blowing in gusts. If Love can throw the short, quick passes it will avoid the wind carrying the ball into the Giants dbacks' hands. Get into the end zone because field goals will be difficult due to the wind. The receivers don't need to be fast, but quick.

Wind will be a factor this afternoon. I am sitting here in NY and its gusts up to 40mph. We will need to run the ball today.

Will not get the TV here and will need to "Wayne and Larry" it until I can watch a re-broadcast, so I won't be in the "party" today.
Have fun everyone, and GPG!

Last week the Packers ran the ball 27 times and attempted to pass the ball 39 times (36 passing attempts + 3 sacks).

So Packers runs to total plays (27/66) were 40.9%.

Conversely Packers passing plays to total plays (39/66) were 59.1%.

For the 46 games since Jordan became starting quarterback - and also the Chiefs 2021 game that Jordan started (47 games total):

Packers record when the Packers run the ball at least 50% of the offensive plays: 16 wins and 3 losses

Packers record when the Packers pass the ball at least 50% of the offensive plays: 9 wins and 18 losses and 1 tie

Today's opponent's run defense is surrendering 5.5 yards per carry - which is 31st in the NFL - only the Bills have a worse run defense with a slightly higher 5.5 yards per carry.

The Giants know that their opponents know that the Giants run defense is terrible.

The Giants know that their opponents will thus run the ball against the Giants.

Despite this foreknowledge, the Giants have not been able to stop the opponents run.

Consequently I would expect that the Packers and Lafleur will run the ball more than 50% today.

Jacobs gains yards after contact; Jacobs is less good at evading contact.

Aaron Jones's vision and agility made him a better before contact runner - because Jones evaded the contact and found holes where other backs cannot - and though Aaron was also good after contact he was not as successful as Jacobs after contact.

Gutekunst could have had both Aaron Jones and Josh Jacobs, but Gutekunst allowed the Packers to lose Aaron Jones to the Vikings over 1 or 2 million dollars of guaranteed money. This was yet another example of Gutekunst destruction of the Packers both in terms of:

1) Enhancement or destruction of team chemistry, team morale, team veteran leadership and experience (i.e. I see little value in being the “youngest team in the NFL”)

2) Talent evaluation

Jones and Jacobs would have been perfect complementary running backs and would have made the Packers offense that much better and harder to defense.

Aaron Jones was a good friend of and supporter of Aaron Rodgers and spoke publicly in support of Aaron Rodger thus Gutekunst had to let Aaron Jones go at the first opportunity.

So today the Packers will run on the Giants, but the Packers could have been that much more deadly with both Jones and Jacobs.

"What the hell is going on out there?" - Vince

The O-line is a hot mess.
Tucker Kraft is out.
Hobbs and Banks stole Gute blind.
Our franchise rb is averaging 3.8 YPC.
Our pets..HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!!

Packers are 17 wins and 6 losses and 1 tie when Jordan does not throw an interception.
Packers are 7 wins 14 losses and 0 ties when Jordan throws an interception.

Packers are 16 wins and 4 losses when Jordan neither throws an interception or loses a fumble (lost fumbles in 5 games so far in his career)
Packers are 8 wins 16 losses and 1 tie when Jordan either throws an interception or losses a fumble

Given the Giants 1) weaknesses and 2) circumstances (new head coach and injuries and drama regarding Tisch/Waltons/Sean Payton and Russell Wilson), the most probable reason for a Packers loss today will be Jordan turning the ball over.

Second most probable reason is another Packer turning the ball over.

Third most probable reason is Giants scoring on explosive plays - Giants have scored 10 times this year on offense from on a play from outside the red zone (i.e. on a play from the opponent's 20 yard line or beyond).

Packers have scored only 1 time this year on offense from outside the red zone.

Giants and Bills both have done this 10 times.

Only the Cardinals with 0 scores from the 20 yard line or beyond have less offensive touchdown scores from distance than the Packers.

Most teams offense 1 play TD scores from distance are by way of passes.

According to Next Gen Stats passing charts for Jordan Love:

(site would not allow me to insert link due to "anti spam" rules)

last week against the Eagles Jordan had the lowest percentage (54.5%) of "short passes" as a percentage of total passes that were targeted to a player that was either behind the line of scrimmage or less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage since week 2.

Also according to next gen stats passing charts last week against the Eagles, Jordan had the highest percentage (33.3%) of "intermediate passes" as a percentage of total passes that were targeted to a player that was at least 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage but less than 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage since week 1.

So Lafleur - contrary to the propaganda - certainly allowed Jordan to open up the game last week. Problem was Jordan is slow releasing the ball and poor at viewing the field.

Packers 27...Giants 7

Love : 3 TD's

Winston: 3 picks

I suddenly have a craving for lobster tails. 🤷‍♂️

Looks awful on first defensive stand. Safeties are playing far too deep. Making a 2nd string qB look great again! Unbelievable!!!

Ruh Roh

Maybe the Defense is waiting to see if the Offense is going to play this week.

Ok. A first down.

Give Jacobs 30 touches

Do we have even one guy who can catch a football?

This team is heading in the wrong direction.... Gute and MLF will be gone at the end of the season. Really embarrassing.

Nice to see how prepared we look. Bad defense, dropped passes and poor punting. Nice 1 Q so far.

Valentine…hands of stone..

That’s why Valentine plays defense.

Second possession. Just give it to Jacobs.

The Packers need to find a way to sneak some Stickum on themselves so they can catch--that also includes you, Valentine.

Now I know why Valentine is a Corner and not a WR. 🫤

Sometimes it’s very hard to watch this dysfunctional team.

Run, run, run. How creative. However, the Oline looks so pitiful and receivers can't catch. We're in a lot of trouble!!

You aren’t supposed to be able to hit a sliding QB, a face mask against Jacobs was not called , nobody can catch and now Willis is in. Nice possession so far

OMG. A reception.

Keep Malik Wilson in the game J Love is shell shocked. At least Malik can run the ball J love looks out of synch.

Malik looks good in there! I guess if your receivers can't catch, it's good to have a running QB!

The offense seems more suited for Willis. That’s on LaFleur. It’s striking. He seems more comfortable running these plays. I am not saying he should be the Starter. However, it is glaring.

The run blocking is better today so far. Pass blocking not so much. Nice catch by Watson on a contested catch

Am i the only one who feels like Willis is just a winner?

It's all he's done playing QB for the Packers.

Willis to the rescue! Leave him in there!

Great, back to the kicker controversy...sigh.

Missed XP Sure why not?

Wow. The offense looks better when people catch the ball.

Tv guys said McManus missed that kick

Maybe after every TD, we go for 2?

Very good catch by Watson.

why aren't the Packers blitzing....?

That looks like a fumble to me, but the rules in the NFL are strange. Enagbare with another penalty on STs. He has committed some penalties on STs in the past.

It looks a little shaky but better. Dexter Lawrence and Burns are causing problems.

4 drops: 2 on Doubs, one on Musgrave, 1 on Fitzpatrick

Our 3rd drop of the first half.

Watson the only one who can catch the damn ball

Wilson picked up Brian Burns one on one and gave Love time. Burns won't want that seen.

Was Golden open or what?

OMG. Doubs caught it.

Three possessions, 2 TDs. Offensive Success Rate = 67%.

Good blocking by Morgan on the TD run.

Nice blocks by Rhyan a nd Morgan. Opened a crease/hole but not a big hole. I did not see anyone get to the second level so that hole appeared to just rupture once past the LOS.

That was a good drive. Now let’s get a shutdown defense here to get the ball back.

Surprised they didn't go for 2 there.

Cooper is a good tackler, but not on that play.

The Cooper whiff is going to cost us.

Defensive line getting pushed all over the field.... Giants 3rd and 1 and the Packers only place 4 D linemen.....? Who the hell is making these calls....? Are the Packers on the Take....?

3rd & 14 the Giants get 20
QB sneak the Giants get 10

10 yard tush push. n Yikes! Another team shortening the game successfully. That is a big missed tackle on Cooper. Make the tackle and NYG punts from their 30ish yard line and GB gets another possession. Instead, they at the GB 18. Make that the 1 yard line

Excellent job by the Defense to give it right back.

The Giant will never get an easier penalty than that.

McDuffie is playing a lot of snaps, no? Are the Giants playing 2 TEs or bringing in a 6th offensive linemen? I see walker and cooper are out there, to they are playing 3 lbs a lot.

Van Roten and Runyan both starting for NYG.

Rasheed beat badly

This team sucks.... Giants are going to win...

Two fumbles on one play.

That’s the second time this half that Musgrave doesn’t secure the ball.

6th drop but at least it isn't a fumble.

2 on doubs
2 on musgrave
1 on wicks
1 on fitzpatrick

Musgrave stinks. He’s not strong at all. On top of that, he can’t get his feet moving without stumbling. He is a bust.

Nobody open. Then Love tripped.

The Green Packers and the New York Football Giants are locked up in a tight one in New Jersey. Whenever these two historic franchises square off, you can toss the record book out the window because it's going to be a dogfight. Today we've learned extra points can be pulled as well as shanked. Packers receivers are finding it challenging to catch the ball with their hands. Packers CBs are having difficulty catching the ball with their chests. The Giants obliviously picked up something on tape that suggested a QB sneak with the QB running backwards through the line would be unstoppable. Ball security is something we're going to need to get fixed. A lot of people are saying Dean Blandino doesn't pick up after himself in the Command Center.

We got 'em right where we want 'em.

Matt had them ready to play today! Not.

GB's swarming defense in the 1st half. 0 sacks, 0 QB hits, 1 TFL. When is the last time Gary or Parsons had a sack?

I'm sure glad I didn't buy tickets to this game..... Packers on a downward spiral.

Even if a win is achieved, this team loses even more credibility.

Looks like the vikings are playing hard to keep that #4 spot.

Packers might want to look at the NFC North standings in a players meeting only.

Depending how this day plays out, the bears could find themselves #1 in the NFC North.

No...this isn't the twilight zone.

Love is 6 for 13. He should be 10 for 13!for about 130!yards.

Jacobs Wilson for 58 yards. The rest of the team has 48 on the ground. We’re halfway to over 200 yards on the ground.

It all needs to go-Gute, MLF, Bisaccia et al. I don't think Policy has the moxie to do it though.There are too many bad roster choices on the Line, receivers not comparable to Nelson, Davante, Driver, way too many ongoing drops, loose route-running, coaches aren't drilling their players, OL w/messy footwork, poor blocking.
This FO/HC was never the best choice.

ESPN has musgrave with 1 rec on 2 targets and fitzpatrick with 1 rec on 1 target. I had both with 2 drops,

Gimme score

Wow...lmao....Can you be anymore open?

Go Giants Go!!

Watson puts Whyle's defender on his ass with a pick. Easy TD

There's nothing like a TD the easy way.

If the wind took the kick that bad, then he needs to kick at the right post and it drifts right in.

Golden with a nice move to draw the PI. And that’s 3 TDs on 5 possessions. 6o%.

We should go for 2 if we score again. Then we’ll have 27.

…and of course we miss the xtra point. This guy is blowing his opportunity.

Having to pass from the 2 yard line to score yet again.

Some of those kids on College GameDay have kicked better. Embarrassing.

Either start going for two or maybe Whelan can kick XPs.

That was Love's first TD pass since the 4th quarter of the steelers game.

Mr. Havrisik's GB HOF chances aren't looking too good at the moment.

The Packers are difficult to watch. I don't think the talent is there, starting with Love. The O line will need to be put under the microscope with some of them looking for a job after the season ends.

RASHAN GARY!!

Wasn't sure if he was active today.

Games pretty tight if they gonna challenge that. 3 yards

2-8 team will go for it

Two 4th down conversions on this drive.

A player injured on almost every play.

Well, I have been wanting to see how well Hopper can play/ but I hope Quay returns soon

Much needed stop on 4th down!

At 2 - 7 the Giants have nothing to loose the Packers have everything to lose....

That’s a turnover on downs

Parsons with the flush on 4th and 3 and McDuffie and Parsons get the sack.

The first drive scored 7. Only 6 points since then.

Coverage sack. I would have tried the FG if I were the Giants being down by only 6.