Packers Practice Roundup - August 17, 2023 (2nd Patriots Joint Practice)

MISCELLANEOUS:
Mercifully, that’s it for joint practice No. 2 after two hours and 17 minutes. There will be no encore. Demovsky
The Packers and the Patriots are up to about 7 fights today. A Patriots player already got thrown out of practice. Someone just tossed a Packers helmet in the air after that last special teams rep, which ended 3 minutes, 30 seconds early. Chaos. Wood
Packers UDFA rookie Keshawn Banks on today's fight that got Anfernee Jennings tossed: "Matt came up to me and said, 'Did you throw a punch?' and I'm just an honest, truthful person. That's the way I was raised and I said, 'Yes sir.' Sure enough, I left practice shortly after." Schneidman
Packers starting offense in 11v11: Bak-Jenkins-Myers-Runyan-Tom Watson-Doubs-Dillon-Jones-Musgrave Love. Bretl [Interesting that with Bakh playing, Nijman was pushed to the #2 OL and Myers is the starting OC. TGR]
Packers starting defense: Defense Clark - Slaton - Wyatt Enagbare - McDuffie - Quay - Smith Rasul - Jaire Owens - Savage. Herman
The difference in energy by the two sidelines is STRIKING right now. Pats lively. Packers look like they got punched in the mouth hard. 2) It was a frustrating day at the office for the Packers. The Patriots won both of their 2-minute drives, the Packers lost 3/4 of theirs, and needed a bit of luck on the other. There will be days like this for a young team, now how to they bounce back? Player of the day: New England. 2) [This is the lucky one:] 4th and 8 complete from Clifford to Heath for a first. 0:56 left. Down 7. Still have both timeouts. On own 30. 1st and 10 now. Next play Heath catches a short pass but tries to get up field rather than getting out of bounds. Timeout. Chrest first down but click ticks. Incomplete to Deguara over the middle. 2nd & 10. Ball on pats 45. 26 seconds. 1 timeout. Down 7. Chrest short catch. Timeout. 21 seconds. 3rd and 7. 0 timeouts left. Dubose with an awesome catch to the 20. Spike. 4 seconds left. Down 7. One play from the 20. Timeout pats. Ball deflected by Pats and CAUGHT BY CODY CHREST FOR A TD!!!! Herman
INJURIES:
Patriots LB Marte Mapu just cold tackled rookie Tucker Kraft on the sideline. Mapu stood over Kraft after the hit. Kraft was slow getting up, but walked over to the sideline. He still has his helmet on. [Kraft returned to practice and played without incident. TGR] Wood
De’Vondre Campbell (ankle) still not practicing. Kenny Clark (back) is back at practice. Corey Ballentine, Caleb Jones, Innis Gaines, Eric Stokes and Bo Melton rehabbing on the side at practice. 2) ILB Tariq Carpenter (back) also back at practice. 3) RB Tyler Goodson also still not practicing. Not in a sling anymore, though. Schneidman
De’Vondre Campbell missed his second straight practice with an ankle injury. He wasn’t in locker room during post-practice media availability, but I saw a scooter and walking boot at his locker. Schneidman/Bretl reposting
Not practicing today: C. Jones Ballentine Gaines Melton Nichols Goodson Campbell Tenuta Stokes Bak, Clark, and Carpenter back. Bretl
QUARTERBACKS/WIDE RECEIVERS:
Jordan Love took 125 reps over 3 joint practices vs Bengals and Patriots. The breakdown of his numbers: at Cincy: 18-30, 212 yards, 3 TD, INT Day 1, Pats: 16-31, 222 yards, 3 TD Day 2, Pats: 14-30, 98 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT Total: 48-91 (52.7%), 532 yards, 7 TD, 3 INT, 82.3 rating. 2) Jordan Love’s 2-minute drill opened with an interception to Patriots DB Marcus Jones. Love badly underthrew Samori Toure on a corner to the right sideline. Jones undercut the throw, tipped in the air and caught it going to the ground. 3) Jordan Love opened 3-goal period with 12-yard TD to Christian Watson, who smoked Marcus Jones on slant. Ended throwing 3-yard TD to Watson, throwing it up for big WR to go get it in middle of EZ. In between, threw INT to Pats DB Kyle Duggar. Bad ball behind open Luke Musgrave. Wood
Not sure what changed with the Patriots offense overnight, but this is the best I’ve seen them look since moving here a year ago. They just torched Green Bay’s defense both in a full-field drill and red zone period. Chad Graff (The Athletic writer covering the Patriots).
Packers No. 1 offense ran six plays from the 12, 9, 7, 5, 4 and 3 against Patriots D. Jordan Love threw TDs to Christian Watson on first and sixth play. Four incompletions in between, including a pick by Kyle Dugger in the back of the end zone on a pass intended for Musgrave. Schneidman
Packers #2 defense v. NE in 2 min: Complete over middle. Nowhere to go. Throws ball away. Throw to flat. Nice job by Thomas to limit play. Zappe buys time, finds TE in space sitting on left sideline. Cox on stunt forces pressure. Throwaway. Wilson on the blitz forces throwaway. Good protection but good coverage. Scrambles and tries to fit ball on sidelines. Incomplete. Ford on late blitz, doesn’t get home quick enough, connects over middle. Complete to TE but Thomas right there again. Ball at 23, 0:30 left — incomplete in pass to left side of end zone. Valentine in close coverage. Good pressure. Possible sack. Scrambles and completes pass to the one. Complete to front right pylon for TD. 2) A really nice day for Eric Wilson. Two deflections that resulted in INTs. A pressure off a blitz as well. 2) [Flipped - GB #2 Offense vs. NE] Clifford in 2 min: Complete on out route. Modest gain. False start. Initial read not there. Pressure. Throws incomplete. Throws behind Deguara on crosser. Wilson gets just enough of blitzer. Clifford finds Heath on out. First down on 4th down. 0:56 left- complete to Heath on sideline. Tried to turn upfield instead of going out of bounds. Pass to Chrest on left sideline. Created space with comeback. Incomplete over middle. Throw to Chrest in flat. Defender right there. Finds DuBose on deep crosser. Nice throw and catch. 0:04 left. Ball at 21 down 7. Blitzer comes flying though, Clifford heaves towards end zone, NE defender tries to pick it and it falls into Chest’s hands. TD. 3) Starting defense in red zone: Draw left. Decent gain. Hard run by NE RB. Sack by McDuffie on blitz. Run of a few yards inside the 10 TD run from 5. Draw from shotgun. Defense stops it at LOS. 4) Clifford in red zone: Blitzer may have had sack but finds Wilson over middle for TD. Nice touch pass to Watts in back left corner. PBU by DB. Good play by defense. Throws to DuBose on slant. PBU. Good protection. Finds Allen for TD. McGough at QB: Ball batted at LOS Ball tipped at LOS. [#3 OL for GB is bad. McGough running for his life all the time - hard to even compare the QBs. TGR] 5) Red Zone for Starters. Love finds Watson in back of end zone on post. Beat his man, no safety around. Pass to Musgrave deflected. Pass to Reed on out route deflected. Love rolls right, tries squeezing ball to Musgrave in front right corner. I compete. Tries to fit pass to Musgrave in tight window in end zone. Possible INT. Couldn’t see. Myers beat, Love buys time. Jump ball to Watson. TD .Bretl
Starting offense back on field: Play-action and pitch right to Jones for good gain. Nickel blitz, goes unpicked up, Love throws away. [No, no, no - at least, that's not what I think happened. Love threw an out to Doubs, but Doubs ran a vertical. Doubs didn't see blitz and didn't adjust his route once he became the hot read. Not a drop since Doubs was 10 yards away, but a drop and not being where you're supposed to be lead to the same thing. TGR] Pitch right to Jones, nice block by Wicks. Play-action, good coverage, Love goes through progressions, finds Dillon in flat. Wilson run for few yards up middle. 2) Wicks and Heath continuing to show their blocking abilities. Bretl
Malik Heath is still balling. [Heath is going to be a tough cut if he doesn't make the 53. Ferocious blocker, productive receiver who aggressively plucks the ball out of the air. imo. TGR] 2) Really nice grab by DuBose on the left sideline. Continuing to flash. [Then again, the bottom bubble WRs all look pretty good. TGR] Nagler
Fans in the stands in multiple practices have been shouting at Clifford: "Get the ball out.!" It is practice, but that is one of my concerns. TGR
RUNNING BACKS:
I thought on Wednesday, Taylor looked really good. Had 2 nice blitz pickups. Also was the lead blocker for Jones and Dillon on 2 plays. Today, Wilson had one blitz pickup where he got just enough of the defender for Clifford to throw downfield. Bretl
TIGHT ENDS:
Because this is practice, Jordan Love got another crack. Love was 6-11 for 41 yards. He got the offense to Patriots’ 18-yard line, but Luke Musgrave dropped potential TD in end zone on last play. Wood
Started pouring rain so missed some plays in 2 minute but drive sparked by completions over middle to Watson and Wicks. Overall good coverage by NE made moving the ball tough. Love lead Musgrave too far on crosser. Tough catch for Deguara on a deep throw to corner but one you’d like to see him make. Throw to end zone through Musgrave’s hands. Bretl [Yours truly also skedaddled when the rain started - mighty cold rain, indeed. TGR]
OFFENSIVE LINE:
The Packers starting offensive line — the one you’re probably going to see against Chicago — has held up well against Patriots defensive front. The third OL very much is not. Alex McGough running all over the place. [I had to laugh: 91, Deatrich Wise, went up against Bakh a couple of times. As soon as his first move didn't work and Bakh had control, Wise just stopped. Wise is a 7-year veteran DL who has played 95 games so far. This is just practice, man. TGR] Wood
My observations and takeaways from the second joint practice between the Packers and Patriots. - Patriots win the day. - David Bakhtiari back on the field - Red zone and two-minute drills. Bretl [Bakh was out there grinding, and looked untouchable in pass pro. TGR]
DEFENSIVE LINE:
More from second defense (red zone) Play-action and Wooden was in the backfield almost instantly. Sack. Cox and Mosby force QB to step up. Sack. Good coverage. Finds WR on quick out. Nice hustle by Cox to get downfield. Nice run up middle. Wilson jumps quick slant, batts ball in air. Picked off. 2) “They’ve provided a spark” said LaFleur about Brooks and Wooden as interior pass rushers. Bretl
LINEBACKERS:
Sack by Enagbare. [In 2 minute drill] 2) Starting defense now on field: Tight coverage by McDuffie v. TE downfield but nice pass by Jones. Good push from IDL Clark and Slaton with a lot of push. Jones dumps off for few yards over middle. Coverage sack. 5 yard run to left side of line. Incomplete out route. Savage was close by. Screen. Nice stop by Owens. Enagbare also may have forced the OT to hold. Van Ness on a stunt. Good coverage gives Enagbare time to get home. [2 sacks for Enagbare - all of the pass rushers looking good against NE. TGR] Bretl
Rashan Gary is working on initial pass rush moves against Ladeem Telfort with Jason Rebrovich overseeing. Getting close…. Nagler
SECONDARY:
The Packers secondary has 2 issues to address: 1) A lack of a consistent starting safety next to Darnell Savage. 2) A logjam preventing Carrington Valentine from getting snaps this fall. Putting Rasul Douglas at safety fixes both issues with one move. 2) Patriots QB Mac Jones hit DeVante Parker for a roughly 45-yard TD over Rasul Douglas down the left sideline on their 2-minute drill. Wood
And Bailey Zappe finds Kayshon Boutte for a short TD just inside the right pylon against CB Kiondre Thomas to win two minute for Patriots backup O vs. Packers backup D. [I had hoped for a jump from Kiondre Thomas this year, but he seems to be fading from contention daily. TGR] 2) Right after Jaire Alexander (on the field) and Jabril Peppers (on the sideline) finish chirping each other, Mac Jones hits DeVante Parker for a 44-yard TD on a bomb down the left sideline over Rasul Douglas to win two minute. Schneidman
Tyquan Thornton just made his best play of camp, hauling in a 40-yard pass from Mac Jones with Jaire Alexander in coverage. A better start today for the Pats offense. Chad Graff
Second unit: SJC on blitz from slot tips pass. Behind WR. WR sits down in zone. Complete for 6-7 yards. Running lane, Moore comes up to make stop by LBs. Few yard run up the middle. Play-action right, screen left. 10 or so yards. WR screen, Moore and Thomas right there Nice break on ball by Wilson, deflected then picked off by Tyrell Ford. NE WR beats Thomas down right sideline for deep ball. Mosby was close by for sack in real time. Bretl
SPECIAL TEAMS:
Rudy Ford and Carrington Valentine first team jammers on punt return. That’s one way to get 37 on the field. 2) If the Packers are really set on Anders Carlson and don't have any plans on competition or making a change, I wonder if they'll consider making the punter/long snapper decision sooner rather than later so at least he can start working with the same snapper and holder every day. [Fair enough, but how set can GB be with Carlson? I don't mind as much as some because I think finding talent for the long-term is more important than the final standings this year, but that's just me. TGR] Herman
Photo Courtesy of Bill Streicher, USA Today Sports
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Comments (40)
greengold
August 18, 2023 at 03:28 am
This is a great synopsis of the last day of joint practice with NE, TGR! Thank you for this.
NE took this practice from the Packers. I mean, they made it apparent the word is out, the Packers are soft, and all you gotta do is punch them in the face, and they’ll cave. NYJ HC Saleh paraphrase there, but it explains what occurred Thursday.
Took it they did, because there wasn’t enough good practice being accomplished. The overwhelming sense I got was a set of joint practice rules were established, and one team didn’t follow them. This clearly had Belichick’s stink all over it.
You know it’s bad when FIGHT #7 breaks out when Aaron Jones got up from a cheap shot after he was tackled (this occurred directly in front of me) and immediately rushed the Patriots offending defender in retaliation.
3 fights in the first 4 minutes of practice is no joke, setting the tone for what turned out to be a pretty F’d up day for getting work done. 2 of the fights on punt teams… LOL. Pretty much a shit show from the get go.
SATURDAY is teed up, ready to HIT! Will the Packers answer?
—
Jordan Love had an off day, with the Patriots having set the tone. Not so much in accuracy, but in timing, Coverage was tight by NE. Every play was being contested. He still came away making some good plays. Both Wicks and Watson carried the day offensively for the WRs. Can corroborate TGR’s description of a poor read of the defense by Doubs being reason for one of Love’s incompletions on the day.
In the passing game, our problems appeared more a combination of tight, contested catch points by NE defenders, and young receivers failing to make the nuanced positioning adjustments needed to secure catches on most of Love’s incompletions. I didn’t see a lot of off-target throws, if any, really by JL. Instead, a lapse in concentration, or failure to come back towards the ball to secure the play by the receivers. Musgrave needs to win catches more. Toure too. OWN the ball.
CTFB.
As for Clifford, he was just hanging onto the ball way too long. NE was playing us close.
Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon & Emanuel Wilson all making plays that arguably could have gone to the house.
Sadly, I missed most of our Packers D action.
Wish I had more descriptive, comprehensive observations to share, but I had a different hat on for this practice, as I was just enjoying the day out with my girl on this one. More fun. Less business!
Great meeting you, TGR!
LambeauPlain
August 18, 2023 at 09:25 am
Thanks for the "Man on the Field" Report, G&G!
This was my exact sentiment as I was reading a few accounts about Pats practice #2:
"I mean, they made it apparent the word is out, the Packers are soft, and all you gotta do is punch them in the face, and they’ll cave."
Belicheat is a HC you love to despise...unless you are a Pats player or fan. It is the preseason for coaches too, and Billy Goat Gruff wanted to see if he could motivate this version of Team Patriots to get tough after the Pack had their way on Wednesday. He can and he did. This is what domination looks like. And what a good HC looks like. He leads them.
It will be fascinating how MLF responds. If he responds.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:10 pm
Apparently Belichek chewed out the team for 90 minutes after joint practice Wednesday.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:33 am
GG,
I consider this GREAT news about our new QB. Just getting out there when things are going wrong is useful practice especially for the passing game and it sounds like JL10 is unflappable so far. Our rookie targets got to see what they need to change to compete in this league, before week 1.
Less surprising that our veteran RBs might find some success under these conditions. #31 Wilson joining in as a rookie? Wow that's exciting, and does look good for Gutey too. Sounds like Emanuel had another good day and is stacking success.
I'm surprised it rained! You know I was watching the weather like a hawk and after deciding not to risk a pretty long round trip for me thought it had cleared up. You were right about Belichek practicing in the rain.
Great night for grilling out, overnight low of 51°. Football's in the air. GPG!
GregC
August 18, 2023 at 07:22 am
Kind of a discouraging practice, but then, you can't expect all of them to be good. It does set the stage for Saturday night's game to possibly be a little more intense than a typical preseason game. I'm not sure if that's a good thing, as I don't want to see any injuries. But it may make the game more interesting to watch.
Coldworld
August 18, 2023 at 07:27 am
I think a good thing for team and fans in the long term. This isn’t going to be easy. It doesn’t hurt the players coaches or fans to be reminded of that now.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 18, 2023 at 09:02 am
NE did take it to the Packers. It seems very likely that it was by design. Belichick probably gave them hell, and thus 4 fights in the first half dozen plays.
That said, Greengold (Mr. Optimist) was sitting next to me, a Grinch who noted every bad play or bad rep I saw, even those that didn't affect the outcome of the play. GG is better at seeing the whole field, but I have to just watch the trenches or the secondary: I can't do both very well from the sidelines. Maybe I should sit behind the end zone?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:12 pm
TGR, it's very helpful getting different perspectives. Part of it is people sitting 30 yards or more apart, but even right next to each other you'll see very different things.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:38 am
After 5 injuries in Cincy this seems worrisome to me. In hockey some teams have a goon squad, the enforcers. NFL, not so much.
This could be as simple as shaking the reputation for being soft, stand up to a bully and they back down. That's the only good scenario I can envision here ...
croatpackfan
August 18, 2023 at 07:29 am
First, thank you TGR and greengold!
I'm not worrying at all. We all know that 1. young teams will have up and down performances and 2. mentioned softness may be product of fear from injuries in young players. They know there is only 10 days left of practice/games and any injury might jeopardize their try to be on 53 or PS roster.
Also, that "fight" and roughness issues from Patriots might be more product of Belichik harsh comments to his team after previous joint practice, than his direct request. He is known of his attitude towards his players if they not perform to his requests.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:40 am
Hard to imagine NE players under pressure re: roster cuts doing this without direction from their HC. If disciplinary measures were on the table for dirty play, they wouldn't have played dirty; or so it seems to me.
TxFred
August 18, 2023 at 07:46 am
We all knew this was going to happen, just not when. Hitting a reality speed bump, a black eye & bloody nose along the way is a good thing. Part of the development process. What we need to be closely watching is how they regroup individually and as a team. Test of true closeness, and support for teammates. Will tell us a ton of the fight, willingness and character of the '23 Reimaging Packers. GPG!!!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:42 am
Fred, I just hope the injury bug stops after the 5 last Friday.
T7Steve
August 18, 2023 at 08:05 am
I don't mind mistakes. Even vets have them and it's good to get them out of the way in training camp.
I DO mind the "toughness" word is coming up AGAIN! Actually, I believe throwing a punch back at someone is soft and taking the easy way out. Walk away with your head up and make them pay on the next play. Push them around and knock them into next week.
Still need to think up a nickname for that toothpaste receiver. Let's see.... Dazzling with Chrest? That's no good. I'll think of something.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:43 am
4 out of 5 dentists recommend ...
Mr Magoo and Crest!
PatrickGB
August 18, 2023 at 08:29 am
What’s up with Loves accuracy? I get a feeling that this may be a season long issue. He has had tons of work over the years that he has been here. I get a feeling that he is what he is. It’s NOT a slam. The team will just keep adjusting and and do what we can with what we have.. GPG
T7Steve
August 18, 2023 at 09:28 am
Maybe it's his footwork? Even the previous QB said that he sometimes got lazy with his footwork and had to go back and look at the film(?) get with Tom C. and go back to basics.
Coldworld
August 18, 2023 at 09:56 am
You might just as reasonably worry about the drop rate. That’s been pretty high. Toure has probably been the best, followed by Doubs. Watson seems to have improved through camp. The rookies have been hit or miss, though Reed seems better recently. Hardly surprising. They are learning too.
All QBs miss. Rodgers did too. But that’s magnified greatly with catchers missing catches too and a first year starter. Patience. Bellicheck is nobodies fool. They looked like they watched some film. They knew what was coming and took advantage. Hopefully LaFleur will be less predictable in season.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 18, 2023 at 08:35 am
It was weird watching a practice during which both Jaire and Rasul got torched for long (40+ yard) TD receptions. They were otherwise pretty good. Valentine looked okay as he had good coverage with an occasional lapse. Not sure but I thought Moore generally was where he ought to be in run defense, harder to say about his coverage. I find it difficult to see or recognize the route combinations and thus what rotation the defense used to react to the offense when the stands are so low.
Aaron Jones showed again why he is the stick that stirs the pot (that is, makes this offense go). A couple of small moves to make a guy miss and get some extra yards. Of course, that can be difficult to judge if tackling is not allowed but tackling was allowed Thursday, it just wasn't supposed to be from the side. Emmanuel Wilson has some wiggle. It will be interesting to see if Wilson plays some ST snaps Saturday. I gather Wilson had one successful pass pro, so STs is the other requirement for being RB #3.
The #1 DL looked decent to good. Slaton and Clark got some push and were fairly stout. Slaton, Clark and Wyatt did give up some runs that would be wins for the offense. Wooden and Brooks with some general good push but again NE probably didn't hate their rushing attack. I am not sanguine about the DL, but it looks like Slaton is a bit better and Brooks can contribute. Not a fan of Wooden so far; he goes in the too early to tell, have to give him 2023 to see what we've got here category.
McDuffie looked competent at Mike LB. I will go out on a limb by suggesting GB can get by with him as a starter. This prediction will be tested almost immediately because there is no way Campbell plays Saturday. [People here should know I love Campbell. No, he wasn't all-pro in 2022, just a nice starter.] There is a good-sized drop off from Campbell to McDuffie, so I think the emphasis would be on "get-by" with regard to McDuffie. I think he'll make the routine plays and tackles, perhaps a yard to two farther downfield. McDuffie is fast and quick enough, he just doesn't have a big body. McDuffie's wingspan is 73" while Campbells is almost 81".
I think the #1 OL is fine. Love to have an upgrade at OC, but I don't think this coaching staff is going to move Tom there. I think having Tom and Runyan take reps at OC is mostly for show and/or to send a message. I'd love an upgrade at RG. I think the Runyan of 2021 would be an upgrade. I suspect that Runyan hasn't been extended simply because the Packers have no money. I thought Rhyan might provide a nudge, and I do think he's improved, but he isn't a starting level RG yet. RT is okay. How disappointed would I be if I were Nijman? Dangling out there on an RFA deal. Contract year and he might be the backup swing tackle? No extension? It may be that Nijman wanted to have a prove it year at RT as he was not used to RT last year and thinks he will perform better this year and then cash in. He can't prove it if Bakh and Tom play every game at LT and RT and he sits for the bulk of the year. Yes, GMs will just watch his 2021 and 2022 tape, and not playing much does lower his injury risk.
Hey GG, it was great meeting you and your wife. Thanks for the residuals.
I have yet to see Quay Walker make a big-time play in practice, and he isn't so good with the routine ones, either. I hated this pick. I thought he oozed talent last year but overall was not a good football player in 2022. Indeed, he was a well below average player. He's done nothing to change my mind this year. I do think he can at present be a coverage linebacker in a part-time role. It may be that there was indeed a reason Walker wasn't the full-time starter at Georgia. GB needs him (and Wyatt) to blossom.
The OLBs look great, save for Van Ness, who looks like a rookie. Enagbare has come alive as a pass rusher, and I thought he willingly did the dirty work last year. Hollins can rush the passer. So can Cox and even Banks. I am not as sure how these last 3 OLBs handle their other responsibilities.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 10:06 am
Looks like #7 will get his chance to make it or break it. I remember him making some good plays last season. Guy's fast!
I also remember seeing #23 getting beat deep more than once last season. Haven't checked on stats to see if they say anything revealing about this.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 18, 2023 at 12:01 pm
I think Quay Walker can be great. Now a move to Grinch mode: there are lots of height, weight, speed prospects who can't play football. I am just waiting to see where on the spectrum Walker ends up. [Edit: I did not and do not mean for this to sound related to autism.]
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:16 pm
That's it you said #7's on the spectrum! Lol
Pats tomorrow, Seattle next week, lots more to see by then. Two weeks til their week 1 game, any idea how much they're planning on practicing during that time? I know there's nothing open to the public but I can't imagine they'll just be off ...
greengold
August 18, 2023 at 02:17 pm
That was a real pleasure, my friend! Cheers!!!
I agree with your assessment here too. Spot on.
Since'61
August 18, 2023 at 08:51 am
TGR your hard work to bring us these reports is appreciated especially for a long distance fan like myself.
GG thank you for taking the time to take notes of your observations and for writing them up as well.
This practice has bought out a number of concerns I have with the 2023 Packers. Most of is due to the youth on the team. But again the physical toughness questions arise for the Packers. Play them hard and tough (punch them in the mouth) and they'll back off. This word will. get around the league before this week is done. Secondly numerous mistakes by young receivers not coming back to the ball or positioning themselves to make a catch. This is to be expected from a young receiving corps and the Packers are still only in preseason. So there is time to learn and adjust but I expect that we will see more of this as the Packers receivers face #1 and #2 CBs during the regular season.
As for Carlson I would give him through the game this weekend and see how he does under pressure at Lambeau.
As I have previously posted about Love this practice shows that he will need time to evolve into his position. I'm willing to give him 2 seasons but I don't how the Packers FO feels about that after Murphy's earlier 1/2 a season comment. We'll just need to wait and see.
Injuries are piling up a bit. I hope that they are mostly minor and most of our guys except Tyler Davis will be ready to go by Week 1. Thanks, Since '61
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 10:02 am
On the recent injury list, hopefully it's only Tenuta knocked out of week 1. If Mt Caleb is still iffy by then he can still be 100% before he's needed.
Other than #84 Davis' ACL of course.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 09:16 am
Wow great info! Yet again.
Questions for you:
1) the "cold tackle" of Tucker Kraft by #2 Marte Mapu, you were apparently there. Did you see a clearly illegal hit? I've read other reports that say nothing about this but GG was right there and says it was blatant, with at least 3 that were worse that he saw.
I've never bought into Belichek being dirty or any of the "gates" as being anything other than hype, but he says there's strong evidence of Belichek sending his players out to hunt heads. Did you see anything like this?
2) Is this the first sighting of Mt Caleb with the team since Friday's game? Doesn't say anything about when he might be ready, but it's a VERY good sign! Did you see any noticeable limp?
3) "The difference in energy by the two sidelines is STRIKING right now. Pats lively. Packers look like they got punched in the mouth hard."
That apparently quotes Herman. Do you know if this was before any fights, or after? Did our team arrive low energy, or was this a reaction after the fact? Just trying to get a feel, others have commented on this energy difference but it's inconsistent so I'm wondering when this changed and maybe players were trying to settle down and not get fined or hurt?
4) Our O line: Myers got beat but JL10 connected to #9 for a TD anyway. I'm not sure if I can call that "a good sign;" was Myers getting beat frequently or was this a fluke and he otherwise held up ok that you saw?
Our third string O line is listed as Telfort#77, Delance70, Empey62, Schneider61, Tenuta at RT is out. Who was at RT and otherwise was this who made up this bad O line?
5) #29 Rasul Douglas got beat, deep, twice. Buzz about moving him to S "fixes everything." Would he not have been beaten had he been at S? Do you think the switch is a good idea?
Observations:
1) #52 Rashan Gary drilling 1 on 1 against Telfort. Wow! That'd be something to see, plus, you know they're both getting better like this :)
2) #18 Malik Heath: "you want a goon? I'll be a goon," blocking ferociously and on a day like this?! Wow that says a lot. Everyone else in the WR room also playing well, not making this decision easy on MLF. Seems like Heath has the advantage as of now? In football, toughness COUNTS.
3) Pass rush and backfield disruption :)
GPG! If this is "a bad day," it bodes well for the season and the team, IMHO
Thegreatreynoldo
August 18, 2023 at 12:53 pm
1) The tackle was from the side, which broke the joint practice rules. This is a joint practice and players had the option to touch the ball carrier's hip to denote a tackle. No one is supposed to get hit that hard in a practice. I am not sure if it would have been defenseless receiver penalty: I normally watch the trenches so I caught this at best out of the corner of my eye.
2. No idea on Caleb Jones. Goodson wasn't wearing a sling anymore, but he didn't do drills.
3. Gosh, IIRC I'd say the first big hit, which was probably illegal under the coaches agreement about the tackling rules, lit a fire on the NE sideline and on the field. But no, I can't say I noticed any intensity difference initially. I don't think there was any intensity difference on the trenches, where I generally watch closely. (One thing I have in common with LH). I think Jenkins said this intensity thing didn't affect the lines, just the LBs/DBs and receivers/RBs. I saw Jones get tackled from the side - that should have been just a touch - and he got up and rushed the NE player. NE was on the far side, so I don't know if their coaches did much to deter these antics.
4. With Bakh and Tom with the #1 OTs, Nijman played #2 LT. Walker played some #2 OT and I think some #3 LT. Telfort played some #3 OT and so did Newman.
Myers holds up decently, but a little more often than one would like he gets beaten. He does play exclusively with the 1s, it seems fair to say. Newman gets beaten far too often: it seems like he has regressed in pass pro. He is better run blocking but due to the nature of practice, they tend to throw the ball a lot. I don't think GB runs the ball more than 30% of the time in these drills.
5. Rasul has been stellar throughout camp. He got caught once (I thought he gave up just one long TD, not two.) I am very reluctant to move him: he is a guy who failed elsewhere, so whatever chemistry, or scheme, it is that he likes as a CB in green bay is something I don't want to mess with. His move to slot didn't work. On paper, it does seem like he has the attributes to play safety. He isn't going to be Nick Collins or Earl Thomas who can erase half of the field, but he has good instincts and has enough speed to play safety. He does take risks in coverage. I wish he had better hands but they aren't bad, despite dropping one or arguably two INTs on Wednesday. I see how moving him to safety might improve the team. Some maybes in that scenario, but it looks like Valentine can play, Stokes probably at some point will return, and only Moore looks decent at safety. In truth, from watching practice and reading tweets, I can't say that Savage is terrible. I haven't seen Savage really make any great plays, but he has seemed sort of adequate so far.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:22 pm
Thanks. I'm watching all this very closely ...
greengold
August 18, 2023 at 02:41 pm
TGR had left to take a break some 5-10 minutes before that hit on Kraft.
What it was, SST, #2 DB Jalen Mills launched himself into the "defenseless receiver," Kraft immediately following his reception while making his turn to go upfield. Blindsided by a CB who launched with a punishing hit that rocked Kraft into a puddle on the practice field sidelines. I still cannot believe Kraft was able to return to action 10 minutes later in practice. It wasn't helmet to helmet like Sternberger, thank GOD! However, since Kraft was in the act of turning when he got hit, the FORCE of the hit knocked the Guardian Cap partially off his helmet, askew, with Kraft sitting on that sideline unable to get up until after the Training staff attended him.
It was #33, LB Anfernee Jennings who immediately took off from midfield after had blown to deliver yet another fully launched hit on the unsuspecting, standing Keyshawn Banks on the opposite side of the field as the pile cleared. ANOTHER BLIND-SIDE by a Patriots player.
Both were the classic Chuck Cecil stuff of yesteryear, but, BOOM! There they were. Yet another fight I witnessed had one of the Patriots OLBs full-on kicking WR Jakadis Bonds while he was down on the ground.
Add in the cheap shot after whistle late hit that had Aaron Jones getting up off the ground on the sidelines in front of me and immediately going after the guilty NE defender as he was walking away to blast him from behind in retaliation, and you get what was going on.
None of that takes into account other fights prior. Two of them on Punt Team drills. It was freaking bananas.
This all happened in easily within the first 40 minutes of practice. For the fans who wanted to watch a practice, and the players who actually did want to practice, the thing devolved more into a kind of crazy stupid circus. This is with officials blowing whistles trying to break things up, coaches gathering their players together to tell them to cool it, coaches having to pull the player fighting aside and shipping their asses back inside.
A pretty good cold hard rain began pelting the crowd and the players, and I looked at my wife and got her the hell outta there. We had been there for maybe an hour... As we were walking out, could hear the cheers from Chrest's TD. By the time we got to Kroll's, the rain had ended, but our day was done.
This Saturday's game is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!!! Go get 'em, Packers!
LFG GPG
LambeauPlain
August 18, 2023 at 09:55 am
Beginning to believe MLF's statement "we will start the best 5 on the OL" may indeed just be more bromide BS.
Myers is not one of the best 5. He may not even be one of the best 8 now as Walker, Jones and Tenuta seem to be having better camps.
However logic does seem to indicate moving Tom to C and making Myers a backup makes more sense than making your 4th best OL sit on the bench. It keeps RT stout with a proven player and shores up the weakest part of the line (C, RG). But I am just a fan. Just fanning away.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 19, 2023 at 11:25 am
Let me start by noting that I am not one of Myers' biggest fans. But he's better than Tenuta and Jones. Walker and Myers are in the same ballpark, IMO, but I've seen Myers play exclusively against the 1s, whereas Walker has played the bulk of his snaps against 2s and 3s. Walker has looked good, but due to level of competition, I don't know, but I'd give the nod to Myers. Hanson is bad. Empey is better than I expected but really is just a camp body. I suspect Schneider is not so hot, but he has been playing RG almost exclusively lately, and that with the 3s, plus (tbh) I only watched him a few times because I thought the 2s were playing and it was Rhyan at RG, then realized it was Schneider.
Jones needs to get back on the field ASAP. I'd have to say Walker >>>Jones. Not close at the moment, though perhaps I've just forgotten how Jones looked.
Swisch
August 18, 2023 at 10:31 am
It seems practically no one is concerned about these joint practices almost inevitably getting out of hand and quite possibly resulting in injuries to our players.
Fans wring their hands over our starters playing a quarter or two in a preseason game, but allow the lunacy of joint practices to go unchallenged.
Yet, no one defends the joint practices as far as providing a ringing endorsement of them as beneficial to the players and the team.
***
If the Packers players were at fault in starting fights against the Patriots, then they should be firmly disciplined.
Yet at the same time, I empathize with them in being put in a position in which they are asked to go hard but not too hard. It seems an almost impossible ask for football players trying to make the team, or improve their stature, or even just trying to play the game.
If the Patriots are at fault in starting fights, then LaFleur should resoundingly defend his troops against the dirty tactics and rally them to play with an intelligent ferocity on Saturday against these schmucks.
LaFleur has to be more than an innovator and cheerleader for the Packers, but a leader of men who really has some sense of the intense physicality of the game of football, which verges on the inhuman.
If he doesn't at least try to appreciate what these guys are experiencing in the dirt and sweat and blood of the controlled but still brutal combat, he doesn't deserve to be head coach -- and the Packers will never win a Super Bowl with tepid, if not timid, leadership.
***
Then again, if not even the most avid and knowledgeable fans of the Packers in places like CheeseheadTV don't care about the idiocy and unfairness of joint practices, then we deserve a team that ultimately shrinks from physicality and fails in the biggest games.
A big part of developing a controlled ferocity with the Packers is not putting them in a position in which they are subject to abuse and injury; another big part is defending them when cheap shots are leveled against them; and another big part is encouraging them to go out on the field and kick ass, while still being smart and sportsmanlike.
The epitome of all of this was Vince Lombardi, formerly one of the Seven Blocks of Granite for Fordham, who (as I understand it) knew what it was like to get his teeth knocked out.
It seems a shame to neglect the lessons of the past from the hall-of-fame located right inside of our own home field, lessons which are timeless to those who want to be winners in any era.
***
I'm really disappointed at the vast majority of the staff and fans here at CHTV right now (greengold being a notable exception), for the reason that I think you are a lot better than this wimpy acceptance (or lack of awareness) of what happened yesterday with the Patriots. WTF.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 18, 2023 at 01:09 pm
I missed the biggest fight (out getting a soda from the concessions). All the hits I saw would be legal in a game with the possible exception of the hit on Kraft. I know GG got upset on the Kraft hit and he told me about the hit I missed. On the one I missed, I could hear fans yelling that the NE player should be expelled. One already had been. I, at least, didn't see any spearing, or helmet to helmet, or blows to the head.
Again, the big boys in the trenches didn't have any real issues. This is mostly about tackling from the side, which is done all the time in real games. I thought it was an issue, but much less of a big deal than others thought.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:32 pm
I've seen a WIDE variety of reactions to this, and by people who are more than just casual commenters. (I'm not sure what to call people on YouTube trying to establish themselves as 'influencers' or whatever, these are strange times)
I've seen people say it was Packers players who started fights while NE just played til the down was over. Most established "media" seemed to ignore it like they had an edict to do so. Maybe Belichek wanted to taunt GB into full contact game rules? Our players declining seems like a w to me, especially if nobody's injured.
Swisch
August 18, 2023 at 05:14 pm
So, TGR, you're confident that Belichick is innocent of telling his troops to stick it to the Packers with dirty tricks?
I couldn't be that while our head coach was telling our players to be restrained, the Patriots took advantage of them and laughed all the way to Massachusetts.
It couldn't be that our head coach is wimping out by not defending his players, and promising that he will never subject them to the idiocy of joint practices ever again.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 19, 2023 at 11:37 am
No. I think Belichick laid into his players after Wednesday's practice. I am just saying I didn't see Vontaze Burfict out there. GG says Kraft was defenseless and it is a practice.
Here's a better way of putting it. In the trenches, you're going to get hit on every down. You always have to bring it when you are an OL or DL. That's why the linemen didn't notice anything.
But the OLBs and the DBs had choices to make. They were allowed to tackle, or they could just touch a hip. They weren't supposed to tackle from the side. NE's DBs and OLBs for the most part decided to tackle when it was close, and often when it wasn't close. The time Jones was tackled (happened perhaps 40 feet from where I was sitting with GG and his lady), it was from the side. It would be a routine tackle in a game. I didn't think it was a vicious hit, just a tackle, but it absolutely was from the side and a little behind as the defender had an angle. The defender should have just touched Jones down, but decided to tackle. Jones immediately jumped up and rushed the defender.
The thing is, some of these touches occurred on plays I thought the ball carrier would have shrugged it off as an arm tackle in a real game. One catch in the flat to Dillon comes to mind: I would hope that a decent percentage of the time Dillon would break that tackle attempt.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 18, 2023 at 02:38 pm
Swisch,
those are some very strange things to say. Fans control the outcome? Online no less?
Sounds like voodoo to me. I know sports are notoriously superstitious to begin with, but how does "wimpy acceptance" figure into outcomes, exactly?
What is MLF supposed to do? Our players should attack before the ball's ever snapped tomorrow night and not stop until a few NE players are dead? What exactly is it you'd like to see different?
Swisch
August 18, 2023 at 05:00 pm
I thought I was fairly clear that I wanted the Packers to play with an intelligent ferocity that is smart and sportsmanlike.
***
It seems to me that a team is influenced by its fans for good and bad.
If we enable a quarterback to be a prima donna, then we deserve the past three seasons of losing our last game on our home field in heartbreaking fashion.
If we enable our head coach to allow our team to be pushed around, then we deserve a team that gets beat up in the biggest games.
As fans, we at least have to speak up for a team of integrity.
Without the fans, there is no Green Bay Packers, there is no NFL.
***
It seems there's good reason to believe Bill Belichick led his players into practice yesterday as provocative pricks of dirty tricks.
That's basically what greengold reported as a first-hand observer.
Skimming around the internet at other accounts, it seems reasonable to suspect the Patriots of bad faith.
It also seems reasonable to suspect our own head coach of wimpiness.
I am upset with other fans who seem not to care.
I'm glad for other interpretations and opinions with compelling words to show me the error of my ways.
Swisch
August 19, 2023 at 09:04 am
Well, I'm not getting much in the way of response, not even compelling replies to help me understand where I may be wrong.
I can talk to myself at home, doubt myself at home, even criticize myself at home. At least that way I don't have to suffer being criticized or ignored without reasoning, and without much of a sense of camaraderie.
As a misfit (here as elsewhere), it seems better for me to bow out without being bothersome any longer -- wishing everyone well.
I won't be checking back for any possible replies to this comment.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 19, 2023 at 11:44 am
I don't think you are wrong. The Packers played with considerable restraint on the tackling part of things. NE didn't, and I think that is part of Belichick's culture. His team should always have a finger on the scale when it comes to toughness, or even ruthlessness.
I didn't know I wasn't responding to you. I only check once per day after the initial article comes out. I still work full time. And we apparently had a no show due to my taking a vacation day and things didn't go well during that vacuum. I often have vacation requests denied. Gonna be a long day on Monday.