Packers Practice Roundup - August 14, 2023
The pecking order for some positions are becoming clearer while others remain murky.

MISCELLANEOUS:
The Packers are practicing inside because it's raining. Matt LaFleur says he isn't too interested in practicing with wet footballs. He's seen coaches dunk footballs in water bucket, but thinks it's unrealistic: "That's not something I subscribe to. I think it's gimmicky as all get out." 2) Zach Tom playing LG for Elgton Jenkins again today. David Bakhtiari also out. The Packers starting: Yosh Nijman, Zach Tom, Josh Myers, Jon Runyan, Rasheed Walker. Nijman and Walker switched from yesterday. Wood
Mine (referring to his most important takeaways from training camp) was we saw the upside of the young WRs. In short: • Watson’s impact without the ball. • Doubs ability to get open • Wicks and Heath impact as blockers and in passing game. • Toure’s development in Year 2 • Reed’s contested catch and jet sweep abilities. Bretl
Packers coach Matt LaFleur said it's a long week and challenged his players to stay focused and take care of their bodies. There will be three padded practices and a game in the next five days. Silverstein
The Packers will workout 5 players, 3 of which are OTs after the recent injuries to Caleb Jones and Luke Tenuta. - Adrian Ealy (OT) - Trevor Reid OT) - BJ Wilson (OT) - Keytaon Thompson (WR) - Zane Lewis (DB). Bretl
Packers will see Zeke this week. Nagler [NE signed Ezekiel Elliott for 1 year, $6M, per reports. TGR]
Players of the day: Dubose Watson Valentine. Herman
INJURIES:
Kenny Clark, one of the Packers few starters who didn’t play in preseason opener at Cincy, is not practicing today because of a back injury. Wood
Also missing was Tariq Carpenter, David Bakhtairi, Lew Nichols, Caleb Jones, and Tyler Goodson, which was the case on Sunday. Innis Gaines was back with the rehab group and Eric Stokes is still on PUP. Jaire Alexander was participating in individual drills but not team drills. Packers are without Tenuta and Caleb Jones right now. Bretl
QUARTERBACKS/WIDE RECEIVERS:
Grant DuBose has had two solid days of practice, I asked him about his performance: “I feel like they went well. Had a couple mistakes, but overall felt like I competed at a high level for both practices that I had. That’s all you can control right now. I just wanted to come out here and play fast, and play confident. But overall, I’ve had a solid two days of practices.” I asked Grant DuBose about the blocking emphasis in the receiver room, and he says they say “if you don’t block, you don’t get the rock.” Bretl
One on ones [QB faces no pass rush - just DB and WR]: Valentine all over DuBose. Kraft with contested catch v. Owens. Thomas with PBU on slant to Melton. Clifford can’t connect with Deguara downfield who had step on Sapp. You’re (Toure) beats SJC downfield. SJC missed jam. Doubs with double love v. Douglas down left sideline. Reed beats Savage. Watts with step on Hooper down right sideline. Allen drops pass. Moore in coverage. Owens all over Pearson. Physical matchup between Wicks and T. Ford. Incomplete. Incomplete to Heath v. SJC. Not on same page with QB. Deguara beats Johnson who was doing a lot of grabbing. Watson beats Nixon downfield. Bretl
More 1 on 1s: Deguara beats Leavitt. Chrest didn’t come back. Not on same page. Dubose with a great route and deep catch on Valentine. Valentine has been unreal so tip your cap to Dubose on that one. Herman
Inside run by Dillon. Nice read and stop by McDuffie. Love with a rocket to Watson over the middle. Douglas would have been able to make a contest/hit on him in a game though. Love - Musgrave over the middle. Rinse. Repeat. Love handoff to Jones. Not much doing. Love rolls left. Jayden Reed again with seperate on and a nice hands catch. 2) Van Ness, Slayton and Hollins stuff a run by Taylor. Clifford to Dubose on an out for a few. Taylor nice cutback for a handful. Clifford with an incredible fading away throw on an out to Heath. Immediate pressure gets negated by a great Clifford play. Clifford to Dubose over the middle. Awesome day for Dubose so far. Wilson inside for a few. Wilson right tackle for a few. Clifford well overthrown to Watts who was covered well anyway. Would be sack by Cox, somehow unblocked. Clifford throws one up in end zone - almost picked by Thomas. Should have been actually but he dropped it. [Kiondre Thomas had a chance to seize a roster spot this year, but he seems to be fading from that scenario, though he had a pass breakup during this practice. TGR] 3) Clifford to Wicks on a slant. Slightly high but I’d count that as a drop for Wicks. Nice read by 8 (Clifford). Herman
Clifford at QB ball at own 40: Run for a few yards by Taylor Quick out to DuBose Nice cutback by Taylor. Finds running lane. Brooks flies into backfield again. Clifford gets rid of ball quick to Heath on sideline. Nice job by Leavitt taking away initial read to flat but Clifford works back and finds DuBose over middle 2) More from Clifford and second offense: Pair of 3-4 yard runs by Wilson. Nice pass rush rep by Cox, beats Newman at RT. Clifford throws away Cox blows up another play. Likely sack but Clifford rolls out and nearly picked in end zone. 3) Starting offense’s turn from own 40 yard line (Walker at RT, Nijman LT, Tom LG): Nice play by Douglas to fill running lane as Dillon tries to bounce outside. Love finds Watson over middle. Good protection. Fits pass between defenders Love finds Musgrave on shallow crosser. Nice block by Deguara v. Mosby. Jones gets around outside. (Second day in a row, Johnson with some snaps with ones. Playing with Moore) Complete to Reed in flat, Nixon right there. Valentine jumps route ran by Doubs on sideline. INT. [Practice ends. TGR] 4) Clifford at QB for second time: Pocket collapsing, pass through Wicks hands on crosser McGough at QB Fumbled snap. Hanson at C. Run for a few yards for McCrary. 6) Starting offense back on field: Watson deep route clears space foe intermediate crosser for Doubs, Love overthrows Hollins blows up run play in backfield Hollins beats Tom, Slaton gives Runyan a run, run stopped at LOS. Bretl
Love finished 8-of-12 passing with one interception (with a bad drop by Doubs). Huber
TIGHT ENDS:
McGough at QB (Newman with 3rd OL): False start Empey Fumbled snap. Schneider at C. He’s had a couple of those over the last week. Nice contested catch by DuBose. Thomas had hand in there. Miller (now at TE) beat by Cox for would-be sack. [Miller trying to make the conversion to TE. 2 botched center/QB snaps in this practice. TGR] 2) Staters 11 on 11: Play-action right, rollout left. Defense really bought play action but incomplete Slaton beats Runyan into backfield on Dillon run Love using hard count. Nice running lane for Dillon behind Jenkins and Nijman. Smith beats Musgrave, nice pickup by Deguara to give Love time who finds Watson downfield. Bretl [Blocking TEs seem scarce, but Musgrave seems hit or miss with it. Needs more consistency. TGR]
Nice body control from the rookie Tucker Kraft in 1v1. Ran an out route against Jonathan Owens. Pass was behind Kraft, but he spun in air and caught it over Owens. Athletic play for a big tight end. Wood
As LaFleur said on Sunday, “everything is on the table” when it comes to the TE position with the Packers being shorthanded. This could include on the field adjustments, or perhaps a free agent addition to bolster depth and hopefully, help as a blocker. Bretl [Austin Allen won't be handed a roster spot, I gather. TGR]
OFFENSIVE LINE:
Packers coach Matt LaFleur said Rasheed Walker has been playing really well and earned the left tackle reps with the No. 1 offense yesterday while Bakhtiari sat out. "We all know Dave is going to be holding that side down, but we're trying to find the best five." Demovsky
"...it’s obvious the Packers would opt to make two moves if there’s an injury in the interior of the line (shifting Tom inside and replacing him at tackle) rather than bring in a guard or center off the bench." Karlecke [Perhaps so - there is a lot of camp left and it depends on how the #2 and #3 guards look. I haven't counted Rhyan out as a viable backup at OG, myself. TGR]
DEFENSIVE LINE:
The Packers need a big year out of TJ Slaton. Carwile (with video by clicking on the link)
Karl Brooks with a run stop followed by a false start on the offense. 2) Colby Wooden just exploded for a would be sack on Clifford. Wow. [Wooden lined up next to Slaton and Wyatt with Clark out for the day. TGR] Herman
SECONDARY:
Seventh-round rookie Carrington Valentine continues to turn heads. Just jumped in front of a Jordan Love pass to Romeo Doubs on the right sideline. Valentine intercepted it and went the other way roughly 80 yards for a pick-6. 2) Christian Watson beat Keisean Nixon on pair of 1v1 reps, including go ball from Jordan Love down right seam. Watson’s speed blew past Nixon at line. On their first rep, Watson sold a deep route and turned it into a stop, using his size to shield Nixon. He’s just a tough cover. [True, Watson is good, but it is a zero sum game, and GB needs Nixon or whoever plays the slot to be able to handle good receivers. TGR] Wood
Valentine isn’t just in the conversation for best rookie at camp so far, he’s in the conversation for best player at camp so far. There’s no guarantee that continues when the real action starts, but he’s been great from day one & was awesome in the preseason game. Herman
"Corey Ballentine has been locked into the second defensive unit as a boundary cornerback, but today, Shemar Jean-Charles, who had a nice game against Cincinnati, saw some reps with the twos and was with group A during team drills that featured the starters." Christopher Karlecke
Anthony Johnson got some reps with the ones. Lot of rotation still. Rudy Ford is being relegated to the 3s.
I know they like Keisean Nixon in the nickel, but at what point do you start considering ways of getting Valentine on the field? Now? Kruse [Plus, he isn't running away with the position, exactly. TGR]
SPECIAL TEAMS:
Another missed extra point for Anders Carlson, again wide right, this one inside the Don Hutson Center. Carlson rebounded to make field goals from 41R and 44L. It’s the easy ones that’ll get you. 2) The Packers have Anders Carlson kick another extra point. He makes this one. Then he’s wide right on his next field goal, from 45L. Lock looked offline from his foot. Carlson good from 47R on last attempt. He’s 4-for-6 today, kicking indoors. Wood
"As he approaches the football from the left, Carlson is rushing. Arriving at the football too quickly, carrying his momentum through the left-to-right line instead of squaring toward the goal posts." Karlecke (Carlson knows why but the correction is answer is elusive).
Two tackles over nine special teams snaps for the rookie (Anthony Johnson, Jr.). Kruse
Photo courtesy of Kareem Elgazzar, The Enquirer/USA Today Network
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Comments (50)
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 04:28 am
The CB room is becoming a little clearer. Alexander, Douglas, Nixon and Valentine will make the team. I haven't read anything about a timeframe for Stokes, so for now, he might start out on PUP. So, that's 4 or 5, and GB keeps 5 or 6. Ballentine has had a good camp so far, but not good enough to consider him a lock. SJC has given signs of life finally, Hooper looked good, and Tyrell Ford and Kiondre Thomas have been more up and down. Gaines got hurt but was getting a look, probably as a backup, for slot behind Nixon. More than one call to see how Valentine looks in the slot.
Safety is murky. Savage has not had very many positive tweets, but not many negative ones either. GB tried Owen (meh) and Ford (even more meh), and moved Gaines to slot CB. Moore, Sapp, and Anthony Johnson have been given chances, and some have looked good, none has taken the bull by the horns. Sapp has been stuck with the 3s, IIRC. Johnson has been making tackles on STs.
RB 3 is a good competition. Love Wilson and Goodson, but neither has played STs, an apparent requirement. Also need to see pass pro out of them, and Goodson can't win a job while wearing a sling. GB might like Pearson, but I suspect he gets stashed on the PS while waiting to see what happens with Deguara in 2024. Patrick Taylor looks like the best bet, at present. Things can change.
It sounds like they like what they are seeing from Rasheed Walker at LT. Waiting for Caleb Jones and Tenuta to return to see if they can mount a challenge. I like Telfort, but 8 reps on the bench - he needs a year in the NFL - and looks like a PS priority. Newman got snaps at RT on Monday.
WR got murkier. Clearly, Watson, Doubs (still has drops) and Reed are locks. Wicks is a very good bet, almost a lock. Toure is a good bet. That's 5. I thought Heath had done enough, but Dubose finally showed up and had two very good days in practice. Melton has moments and plays a lot of STs (not sure how well). Heath, Melton and Dubose in a battle for WR 6, should they keep 6. They shouldn't keep 7.
ILB is clear: Campbell, Quay, McDuffie, and Carpenter, if his injury heals up. Wilson due to STs is a good bet. No more than 5 ILBs. OLBs is clear enough for the 1s and 2s: Gary, Smith, Van Ness (even if his play isn't necessarily the 3rd best), Enagbare. That's 4. The battle for #5 is hot, with Hollins a good bet. Pass rushers don't grow on trees. Still, Cox and perhaps Banks are doing enough to make him have to earn it. Cox with another good day in practice. I think Banks is buried with the 3s. Arron Mosby is a PS guy.
IDK about kickers, snapper, or punters. No one should be a lock. Jonathan Ford has to force them to keep 6. Wooden as a 4th rounder was always a lock, and Brooks (6th rounder) has been too good to even think about exposing him to waivers. Still figuring out the centers and guards. Rhyan has not disqualified himself for being considered a decent backup: at least he has time to improve and show the coaching staff.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 10:47 am
Wow! Tons of great info from you, again.
The end of your article about Carlson's kicking mechanics echoes what I saw. I think it's correctable. That doesn't mean he'll dial that in this season.
I'm mostly interested in the O line position competition for several reasons, including I had a great view of our DBs in two practices. I completely agree with the assessments of the best four at each position. I keep hoping #34 Owens will seal the deal and he just hasn't yet. He's a touch slower and sometimes that's mattered. I'm not sure what else contributes to his worst plays, but his best look good.
The WR battle will surely get lots of attention! I wonder what Doubs' reception rate is so far including OTAs, TC and week 1? Maybe the concern about drops is overblown?
The 1 on 1 drills can be intense! Our players go hard, yet still maintain team comraderie; really cool to watch. 7 on 7 drills too. While it's concerning that #8 gets pressured so much, at least that's the 2's. Fortunately he's in a red jersey and not risking injury, and we've got depth on defense!
#34 Jenkins DID practice, although it sounds like he wasn't on the field very long? Not an injury, maybe just overtaxed a little? Kenny Clarke is bad news but we can still hope this is minor.
Lots of coaching left to do before week 1, and they seem to be doing at least reasonably well. I hope and pray for excellence there, I think this is a critical time interval for that.
Leatherhead
August 15, 2023 at 01:51 pm
Tom working at LG behind Jenkins. Hmmm. That certainly reinforces my notion that the operating goal is to keep that left side as strong and solid as we can, even if we have to sacrifice some of the right side to do it.
If the plan is to use Musgrave as a big slot, we only need to carry 5 WRs, IMO.
Doubs is probably under a microscope for dropping things, and rightfully so. There's a limited number of opportunities. 66 plays, two thirds of them go to Jones/Dillon and Watson. And Musgrave and Reed deserve some targets, so the remaining throws are too scarce to waste them on a guy who doesn't catch it.
T7Steve
August 15, 2023 at 02:06 pm
As greengold coined.
CTFB!
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 03:31 pm
CTFB!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 09:42 pm
I agree about Doubs', or anybody with a low reception rate and high drops. I don't know his reception rate after last season, or how it compares to the rest of the room. I will say that other teams have more receivers with 100% reception rate.
There's LOTS of talent in the room! They can afford to be picky, and I hope they are.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 05:36 am
WR is indeed murky. I knew DuBose would immediately impress, because he looked like an NFL WR at first glance. It’s as if it’s written all over him. Like, WR1 all over him. Kind of like Wicks, who has a very similar quality. His play backs it up too.
They may keep 7.
I’m seeing position groups on this team that are absolutely loaded with really good players, making decisions really difficult for that 53. WR. DL. OLB. RB. WR. CB.
Maybe hybrid players save us a couple of much needed spots on that 53? Maybe not?
I’ll be interested to see if Wilson can lead block. Apparently, his pass pro blocking was solid per draft profiles. Would that save us a FB spot while bolstering RB?
Will Carpenter show up to allow the Packers to keep one fewer Safety? How essential is Deguara? Are these last two saving us roster space, or, needlessly taking up valuable roster space?
Some difficult choices to be made within these next two weeks.
Here’s a sample 53:
OFFENSE (25)
QB (2) Love, Clifford
RB (3) Jones, Dillon, Wilson
FB (1) Deguara
WR (6) Watson, Doubs, Reed, Toure, Wicks, DuBose
TE (3) Musgrave, Kraft, Miller
OL (10) Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Tom, Nijman, Walker, Jones, Rhyan, Telfort
DEFENSE (25)
DL (6) Clark, Wyatt, Slaton, Ford, Wooden, Brooks
OLB (6) Gary, Smith, Van Ness, Enagbare, Hollins, Cox Jr.
ILB (3) Campbell, Walker, McDuffie
CB (5) Alexander, Douglas, Stokes, Nixon, Valentine
S (5) Savage, Moore, Johnson Jr., Sapp III, Owens
SPECIAL TEAMS
K Carlson
P Whelan
LS Orzech
They want to run. Keep 3 RB plus FB. Keep an extra OL (10), and use heavy sets.
Keep 6 DL and 6 OLB because TRENCHES.
Thank you, TGR, for yet another great write up! Stellar!!!
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 05:57 am
I see that Justis Musqueda suggested giving Douglas some reps at safety so Valentine can play perimeter CB. I never have been a fan of messing with Douglas, but some reps wouldn't hurt, I guess. I think trying Valentine in the slot makes sense, as well. I didn't love Nixon as a defensive player - thought he was very mediocre, which is better than what we had. I liked Douglas even less in the slot. I don't see any hybrids who potentially could save a roster spot. Carpenter might be a hybrid, but he doesn't replace Campbell, so GB still needs McDuffie. Carpenter might replace Eric Wilson but he's only good for STs and they both are already on it.
I haven't gotten word on my vacation requests, so I think Wednesday is unlikely. Still thinking I will manage to get to the joint practice on Thursday, and Krolls afterwards. You'd think I was essential, or something.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 06:12 am
Yay!!! Cool. Thursday. Can’t wait for this practice.
Justis rocks. I try checking out his takes as often as I’m able. I’ve been the biggest Melton proponent, but this 53 shows how much raw talent exudes from DuBose. The harsh reality is both Toure and Reed can run Jets too. Seems he’ll get scooped off our PS. Maybe they try to stash him IR?
Deguara. A very difficult call. Can Wilson show as a lead blocker ala Dorsey Levens? He’s got the athleticism.
Agree on Nixon. Maybe try Sapp III in slot?
Agree on Douglas. Unsure at slot, and damn if we didn’t draft Savage for that, but he’s not showing as a tackler. I may question Savage’s ability to stick on this roster more than anybody save for Newman. Owens in slot may be a solution if he can ramp up his coverage. Are Savage & Owens polar opposites? One great in coverage, poor in tackling. The other struggles (?) in coverage, great in tackling?
This is where Moore really shows himself to be a complete player at S. He and Johnson Jr. are my starter picks.
The more I think about it, trying Valentine in slot makes a lot of sense! You ARE essential!!!
We’ll definitely be At Kroll’s afterwards and will see you there if not before.
HawkPacker
August 15, 2023 at 08:27 am
I would love to see Valentine in the slot and hope he is the answer as we need him on the roster, at least at this point based on his play.
No mention of Heath or did I miss it. With his blocking, it will be hard to keep him off the roster although I do like your WR picks GG!
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 09:12 am
Agree. Valentine moving to slot now? It could wind up being PURE GOLD, propelling his career into the stratosphere, if he really takes to playing slot. He could wind up being a destroyer there.
As for Deguara - NONE of us knows!!! LOL. He was used so minimally by AR that he only registered 15 Targets in his 17 games played last season. Just 33 in his 16 games played in 2021. Despite that minimal use, his Catch% has climbed from 75.8% to 86.7%.
I'm the first to admit, I don't know shizzle about LaFleur's thoughts and intentions with Deguara, BUT, my guess is he is FAR MORE VALUABLE than we might realize. Jet concepts...
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 07:07 am
Miller isn't a real TE. He is PS while he converts.
Carpenter at ILB?
Eric Wilson at ILB but really STs?
Don't like keeping five crappy safeties while letting talented CBs go.
Time can change this around. Going to be a fun preseason.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 07:16 am
LOL! My thoughts exactly!!!
I REALLY liked Eric Wilson’s play Friday night v. CIN. Maybe more than McDuffie’s!
Miller is just what you say, but my thinking with him is he might prove a good backup for Musgrave’s role in this offense, which is really a big WR who can block. Unsure about Miller’s blocking as I haven’t really studied him much.
Tucker Kraft jumping into this scene as a well rounded, reliable, dependable, available, regular force as our in-line TE is essential.
Coldworld
August 15, 2023 at 09:01 am
In NY, before getting hurt, the role they had Miller playing sounded more H back than TE. He had shown up as a willing blocker and particularly as a lead blocker. He’d added weight he has since lost most of apparently. As an in-line TE he’s small and still has a long way to go—we signed him as a WR prospect in the Lazard mold. I don’t think he’s a serious part of this years TE conversation. He might be a goon or even H back type on the PS if we can’t hang on to one’s above him. I saw him as a project Lazard but with more potential role versatility.
As to S. In Cincy one S graded really well: Moore. He’s been getting expanded time but for some reason doesn’t seem to be a media fave. He may not be married to a star or be a potential UDFA steal, but he’s been the best S of the new guys. Owens was not good at all in Cincy.
PFF’s top 5 D in Cincy. Included:
4. S Tarvarius Moore: 81.7
5. S Anthony Johnson Jr.: 76.5
Owens was rated as the third worst, at 35.0 over 15 snaps. If Johnson, who’s shown little this summer till recently, keeps standing out, then I’m starting to feel a little better. Moore is also playing a lot of STs I believe.
GregC
August 15, 2023 at 09:58 am
No mystery as to why Moore has not been a media fave. He's been near the bottom of the depth chart for all of training camp. When they finally shuffled the pecking order, it was Owens who got a chance to play with the starters. I'm hoping Moore gets his chance now.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:19 am
GG,
taking a stab at a 53 shows how hard it is. I like your O line! Newman and Hanson nowhere to be found. #72 Jones would probably have lost a little something by 8/29 even if he's ready to go that soon.
At S, very bold to keep #20 Rudy Ford off and #48 Sapp in; I have to keep reminding myself that's not Warren, lol. Agreed that #30 has to be included.
My "players to watch" list for practice is down to #61, 62, 63, 71, 75, & 77. Maybe with such a narrow focus I can finally get a good grasp of what they bring to the table?
#21 and 52 should be at the far end, tough to see from the offensive 25. Eyes peeled for an appearance by 78 or 97. I think Bakh practices once before the next game, Wednesday would be my guess, but that doesn't mean in the public session.
Will be interesting to see if Whelan holding affects Carlson much. I think O'Donnell is the more consistent punter. Not sure if Whelan's short punts are all shanks or what's going on there. He's certainly got power!
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 12:01 pm
By rights I should zip Savage off that sucker. The thing that has hurt us badly with his play is his tackling has been atrocious all 4 years with Missed Tackle %s of 12.7% in 2019, 10.7% in 2020 (his best season overall), 13.7% in 2021 and 9.4% in 2022. His QB Rating Allowed ballooned from 67.3 in 2020 to 117.4 in 2021 and 114.2 in 2022. Both his INTs and PDs have dropped from 4/12 in 2020 to 2/9 in 2021 and 1/5 in 2022.
Darnell Savage has been trending the wrong direction for the most part since 2020. I wish that wasn't the case, as I was a big fan of the Packers drafting him, but, it's been plain to see.
I'm not sure how all the added VOID years stuff would work into his possibly being released.
Also, we should consider last year's difficulty with DBs having to play half the season with a lesser pass rush in front of them, along with whatever crazy stuff was going on with Jerry Gray. The Packers new Passing Game Coordinator, Greg Williams along with new DB Coach Ryan Downard could help to turn him around.
We'll find out soon enough.
Ford? He hasn't shown himself to be any big improvement over Savage's worst seasons.
I think the answer for the Packers in 2023 is Moore at FS and Johnson Jr. at SS.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 09:48 pm
Start Moore and Johnson, with Owens and Sapp as backups?
I wonder if MLF has the cajones to cut veterans who are clearly inferior?
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
August 17, 2023 at 08:46 am
This is what excites me! We were a sub 500 team last year, and now have the youngest team in the league with so many unknowns. Yet on surface we 'seem' to have so much young talent/potential at so many positions all of us are starting to do our annual hyperventilating on who might not make the team at cut down. Love this stuff and like the rest of you I'm stressing over who might get cut at positions like WR, RB, Edge, DL, OL, DL, CB, and Safety.
GregC
August 15, 2023 at 06:37 am
The one position that has been a clear disappointment is safety. They seem to be rotating players just to give each of them a chance. As TGR writes, nobody has taken the bull by the horns. Even Savage, who appears to be a lock as a starter, is mostly there by default.
There's no other position group that has that problem. WR is fascinating, with eight players competing for probably six spots.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 06:53 am
Greg, I agree with your sentiment here. I NEVER felt Savage was a lock. He’s underperformed in 3 of 4 years. I say this acknowledging I wanted the Packers to draft him in the worst way. I’ve been one of his biggest fans, but… the player has to deliver!
More pass rush usually helps any DB. True, but it won’t make Savage a better tackler. He was a great tackler at Maryland! What happened?
It’s a conundrum. jannes was all for us trading for Budda Baker. I compared the two, and, Baker is good in the slot. Sound tackler. His ball skills are lesser, and, take him away from the LOS, and he’s worthless deep. Imagine that, a 2-time All-Pro!
Savage might be the weak link there, and the Packers may be best served moving on.
I think fans will be very happy with Moore as our starting FS. Johnson Jr., even while suffering some rookie mistakes, might be our best option at SS. Maybe Owens. Sapp III has impressed me. Seems to have that “it” quality watching him play.
Could easily see Gutekunst using a Top pick at Safety next year. It’s a really good Safety class too - for the first time in years.
GregC
August 15, 2023 at 07:37 am
I saw Moore on the field in Cincy but don't recall him making any plays. I think somebody said he played pretty well though. It would be good to see him get some first half action against the Patriots.
I know they passed up Brian Branch in the draft, but he seems like more of a slot defender, so I was not sold on him as a safety anyway. It will be interesting to see how he does in Detroit.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 09:10 am
Moore made some tackles look easy, by which I mean routine. He looks like a good tackler, which is why he has played a ton of special team snaps. Moore made 4 tackles (3 solo) in 23 snaps at safety. He played 9 ST snaps with no stats. His stats show a good tackler with a missed tackle rate of 0 (just 41 snaps), 8%, and 8.8%, though he had a bad year in 2019 at 16.7%. We'll see.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 09:17 am
I disregard every previous Pro stat with Moore, as SF tried converting this fantastic Safety they drafted into a CB from Day 1 with the 49ers.
Really sad, because he was special at S coming into the league. From my draft notes:
Tarvarius Moore - Southern Miss
6-2 191 4.32 11.1 broad 38.5 vertical RAS 9.22
During Moore’s Senior year (2017) 522 of his 831 defensive snaps were either in the box or at FS, earning an elite run-defense grade of 90.2 that ranked 1st among the 123 draft-eligible safeties and an 82.9 coverage grade that ranked tied for 18th.
His last two years Moore had an 86.2 coverage grade and allowed just nine completions on 24 targets for 173 yards and one touchdown, 5 INT, 2 PBU. Passer rating allowed off just 37.7 on throws into his coverage — 3rd best among Safeties with at least 20 targets in coverage.
Moore’s a premium athlete w smooth hips, fluid feet, ability to handle man cover matchups that others could struggle with.
Racingdad
August 15, 2023 at 10:49 am
GG you just nailed it with moore s f tried to change him my hope is gb knows he was a good safety in college and can be one again . I could see him as a starter for us . Someone else posted about next years draft - I’d love to see gb take the top saftey in first also maybe another later maybe even use both first rd picks on safety’s !! That is unless moore and/ or Johnson ball out this year
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 12:03 pm
9 completions against vs 7 interceptions or PBU?!? That's freakishly stellar!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:27 am
Savage tackling well in College may simply be the difference in NFL opponents? His stats don't show a big dropoff, but I remember some situations that sure did.
Sapp is HUNGRY! That might be enough to propel him onto the roster? I'm not about to write off Moore, Owens, or Johnson. Notice I didn't put Owens first anymore; could be a momentary slip he recovers from, or a trend. I think #38 Gaines is still moved to slot CB? Will be interesting to see how that develops, if that's his last gasp before being cut or what.
T7Steve
August 15, 2023 at 07:28 am
They seem to be playing around with the O-line and where they are practicing.
Does this mean they have their starters figured out and are experimenting for backups?
The only consistent player I hear in one place with the 1s is Myers at center.
Also, as questioned above by TGR and greengold, Degaura is a lock if the sounds by the coaching and their approach means anything.
HawkPacker
August 15, 2023 at 08:31 am
I think Dequara is a lock based on his experience and where they drafted him. Plus he can play multiple offensive positions.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 09:02 am
The Packers DEFINITELY have a system for how they acquire OL. For the most part, they draft or sign OTs, with the idea being OT is the most difficult OL position to play (I recall seeing an article where Gutekunst shared this thought on his overall philosophy). Then they use those OTs at their iOL positions.
Josh Sitton and TJ Lang are two examples. I always thought they were drafted as OGs, but no. Green Bay made them OGs!!! For reals. LOL. Just found this out myself looking into it earlier this year.
I'll bet it's something Wolf passed down to Ted, and Ted passed down to Gutekunst along the way...
TC and preseason is the time they find those things out about their players. That, I'm guessing is the reason for the shuffling around at OL that we have been seeing thoughot this year's sessions. I think they already know, or have a really good idea about the starters they want to roll with.
Leatherhead
August 15, 2023 at 10:56 am
High Schools, and colleges, put their best offensive linemen at tackle. That's the thinking behind drafting tackles and converting them to guards.
dobber
August 15, 2023 at 09:24 am
"They seem to be playing around with the O-line and where they are practicing."
Some of it may be experimenting, as you note, but also some is veteran rest for Bakh and Jenkins. Some, too, is cross-training guys over multiple positions to be flexible on game day.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 09:29 am
B I N G O .
Justis Mosqueda said the Packers brought 3 OL in yesterday. Adrian Ealy, who is 6-6 321 spent a couple weeks on the Packers 2021 PS. Trevor Reid is a OT prospect who recently tried out with NE. He signed with PHI as a UDFA and the Eagles released him last week.
Another interesting OL is BJ Wilson who is a former All-Conference OL from Quincy University (Div II). Wilson was a TE at Quincy before growing into his OT role. Hmmm... could he become that big bad blocking TE LaFleur craves? One who doubles as an extra OL on run plays?
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/8/14/23832112/green-bay-packers-...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 12:12 pm
GG,
NFL.com grades all three at bottom of roster or PS. Important workouts!
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 12:35 pm
Trevor Reid - a work in progress - could be a positive signing. Hell, any of them, I guess, depending on their workouts and how they plan to use them.
Reid's athleticism sets him apart. 6-5 314. Good arm length 34.5ish. Hand size a bit small 9.25", yet strong. 85" wingspan (100%). Nearly all the other performance metrics off the charts.
He's just going to need a ton of technique work, both pass & run. Holds up against bull rushes... but, loses his feet too easily in run blocking. Sounds like he's got excellent movement skills. Needs to bend knees/sink hips.
Yoda, this one needs... good coaching. Hmm.
We're hard pressed to find much else right now. Should be quite different in a couple weeks. Maybe they simply keep their powder dry until then...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 10:06 pm
These are Reid's listed weaknesses:
Below-average thickness in his lower half.
Hip and ankle tightness limit agility in space.
Not much strength in hands or upper body to win at point of attack.
Below-average body control and contact balance.
Unable to keep rush bullies from bulldozing his edge when they get into him.
Curious what impression all 3 made at their workouts.
Coldworld
August 15, 2023 at 09:45 am
That suggests they don’t see him as positionally versatile. They’ve now had Runyon and Tom at C, Tom at LG even as well as RT … Nijman was at RT and LT again and now Walker. Meyers is getting less time at C, but he’s also not getting time anywhere else with the 1s or 2s that I see reported.
Deguara has a back up and they have been in a separate group all camp. The last time that happened was before we abandoned the illusion of complexity. Unless LaFleur suddenly ditched the H back role, Deguara is a lock and back to doing what he was drafted for and I’d expect him to have more of an impact accordingly.
As to WR, health permitting the default group is clear. Watson and Doubs as the starters, Reed in the slot and Toure the 4th WR and first. WR up if any go down or they aren’t using a slot. Then you have Musgrave as a X/big slot in his “WR”. capacity. Reed is the likely punt returner if that’s not Nixon. Toure maybe a back up KR.
That 4 plus Musgrave could well be the only active WRs. In fact it’s quite likely. Any additional spot I’d going to require ST value on game day or it will go elsewhere. They maybe carry one non ST game day inactive WR. That would make 5 WRs (not counting Musgrave). That opens a spot for a guy like Goodson or Wilson as well as Taylor or some other permutation.
Looking at the WRs not mentioned, as far as I understand it, the only one who might be active for STs on merit is Melton who’s been making a mark as a gunner at least. I’m not sure Heath/Wicks/DuBose have the long speed for that or profile well as a returner and none have seized another role (DuBose obviously hasn’t had a chance to).
For that reason I would not be at all surprised if the 5 WR name on the roster is Melton. The sixth WR, if we keep one, is likely Wicks on pick position and versatility in the event of injury at this point. However, Heath or DuBose or a guy like Goodson or Wilson price more valuable in STs or on O. I think we could get all 3 WRs to the PS, probably the RBs too, so utility is going to matter this year to crack the roster.
I love the rookie love, but we can’t keep them all, most won’t play much absent injury and we will be using slots for ST talent when it’s close.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 11:10 am
Wicks is a 5th round pick. And he is playing well. Wicks is a lock, but Heath, Melton, and Dubose aren't. IMO, of course.
I went back and looked a while ago how many 5th round picks didn't make the 53 as rookies. Cole Madison doesn't count. DeAngelo Yancey in 2017. Jamon Meredith in 2009. David Clowney in 2007. Anthony Hicks in 1997 and Jay Barker in 1995. There have been 38 fifth round selections since 1995. Good odds, not as good as I expected. Still think Wicks is a lock. Love the way he runs a route.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 12:28 pm
Besides, he's already earned the nickname Tay and it sticks! Lol. Interesting to see things taking shape.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:41 am
CW,
you just said Bo Melton's stock is up. I love it!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:34 am
Steve,
I do think all the switching around on O line and particularly with the ones is exactly to get a better look at depth, not so much that they're seriously considering making that change. With the exception of C; I think they are looking to see if there might be a better starter than Myers. At least I hope so.
If Nijman can truly be just as good at both T positions it's interesting to consider Tom as starting C, Nijman starting at RT and switching to relieve Bakh as needed. I fear time is getting short for Tom to get enough practice to be his best C, and losing reps probably isn't making Myers better either.
LeotisHarris
August 15, 2023 at 08:38 am
Again, this is so helpful, TGR. Much appreciated.
Do you think LaFleur says things like "I think it's gimmicky as all get out" to bolster his personal illusion of complexity? Should a guy with his grooming skills and hipster vibe sound like he's having a conversation with Goober while playing checkers in Mayberry?
C'mon, Anders. *Between* the uprights, little buddy!
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 08:56 am
"Goober." - I'm dead. LOLOLOLOLOL
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:48 am
Handling a wet ball is definitely a different feel. Usually happens more after October. I hope MLF adjusts the team to it somehow rather than getting burned by failing to, but right now increasing the reception rate and eliminating drops is a worthwhile goal even if that requires ideal conditions. IMHO. One dropped pass can be all it takes to kill a drive and allow a defensive score.
Since'61
August 15, 2023 at 08:56 am
Great report again TGR. The Packers still have numerous issues to work out based on this report.
If the Packers keep 4 RBs they should be Jones, Dillon, Goodson or Taylor and Wilson. Deguara might be the odd man out especially if Wilson can block effectively and play STs.
At TE it's looking like we need a blocking TE with Davis now lost for the season. Very unfortunate that Lewis signed with the Bears.
It's looking like the Packers are still trying to figure out the best right side OL combination. This could go on into the early season like it did in 2022.
The Packers should be fine at WR if everyone remains healthy. Top 5 are set with Watson, Doubs, Toure, Reed and Wicks. After that it's a matter of how many they want to keep on the final 53.
It beginning to sound like the DL is coming together. Contributions from Slayton, Ford, Brooks and Wooden sound promising.
Gary getting healthy is huge for the OLB group.
Safety is the most uncertain position group on the team at this time. More work is needed there.
Carlson needs to find consistency in his kicking. The Packers need Bisaccia to deliver some answers to help him before the regular season begins. If Carlson doesn't deliver by the NE preseason game it might be time to give Crosby a call and get him back in Green Bay with 2 plus weeks before the season begins.
Still plenty of questions for this team. Thanks, Since '61
Thegreatreynoldo
August 15, 2023 at 09:50 am
Marcedes Lewis signed a one-year, $2M contract with $1M fully guaranteed at signing. That would have been doable, more or less. GB still at $13.6M in cap space, per OTC. The PS for sure will cost not less than $3.457M, and the 52nd and 53rd probably another $1.56M, leaving $8.6M. GB will probably spend $600K on PS elevations, so $8M. Tyler Davis will go on IR at $1.04M (unless he has a split contract which is possible), so about $7M. An in-season piggy bank of $4M to $5M is reasonable for IR and PUP charges and to pay incentives. Down to about $2M or $3M. Lewis was doable, but barely. Of course, GB might extend Gary and gain $3M or so in 2023 cap savings.
TJ Slaton is the big NT, who seems to have improved. Chris Slayton is the DT on the PS who has been hanging around for a while but has been virtually unheard from during this training camp.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 15, 2023 at 11:55 am
61, I love the idea of starting the season with 4 RBs on the roster! Even if the plan is to swap one out for an additional WR once the passing game really settles in. I think that's good strategy.
Very interesting to see if Gutey can add quality depth at TE and O line.
Since'61
August 16, 2023 at 08:32 am
👍👍. Thanks, Since '61
Doug_In_Sandpoint
August 15, 2023 at 09:59 am
Biggest question for Anders…can he tackle?
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 10:50 am
Doug, I’m sure Bisaccia is hoping he never has to find that out!