Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Lafleur Needs More Love

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Last week in this space , I proposed the theory that a big issue with the Packers' offense is game planning. I didn't see anything against the Eagles that would cause me to change my mind on that. This is now a good 4-5 games in a row where defenses have played the Packers the same way. Take away their beloved explosives and let them self-destruct or bleed out. Teams know that the Packers won't change their approach until the fourth quarter when they are desperate, and then it's just a matter of whether their defense can hold on and secure the win. The Eagles did just that, although Nick Sirianni did his best to give the Packers one last undeserved chance, but then the Packers just didn't execute. When you dig yourself into hole and only have only one chance to get out of it, sometimes you lose.

I honestly felt like LaFleur was trolling us all with his first half game plan. He's surely aware of the all the fan and media yelling and screaming about his underperforming and conservative Packers offense, yet he came out against the Eagles with the same old plan that has been failing him..It's as if he was saying, screw the critics - I'll show them by doing the exact same things!  Oh wait, that's not fair. He did scratch the wide receiver screens as a core staple of his offense. One baby step at a time. Maybe next week we can eliminate the inside zone handoffs on second down and long.

Somebody has to take Lafleur by the shoulder blades, shake him vigorously and snap him out of this before it's too late. He needs to CHANGE what they are doing on offense.

Jordan Love - I took some heat here a few weeks ago for saying I was only 80% convinced that Jordan Love was "the guy" for Green Bay. That hasn't changed much, and if anything may have dropped a few points. I believe he has the talent to be "that guy" but I don't know if he currently has that "assassin" mentality and confidence other top quarterbacks have. The persona and on-field demeanor to make all the right decisions and find a way to will his team to a win when the opportunity is there. I think there is more maturation that needs to take place for Love to be confident in those critical moments. One way to do develop that is for Matt LaFleur to stop being so damn conservative and afraid to lose and just let Love cook. Change up your route schemes to provide Love with quick throws he can complete and not have to wait for downfield routes to develop. Get Love into a rhythm and good things will happen. LaFleur needs more Love in his offense, whether he realizes it or not.

Currently, Lafleur is not doing Love any favors, like the maddening propensity to hand the ball off on second and long, forcing Love to throw more when everyone in the stadium knows he has to. You've seen Love lead the team downfield when, desperation sets in late and LaFleur loosens the reigns so Love is allowed to pretty much throw on every down. Hell, if not for a bunch of key dropped passes, Love leads a scoring drive and the Packers likely win this game late, 

As for Love and critical moments, how does he not realize he should call a timeout on that fourth and short where the Packers don't look ready and the Eagles players are calling out the play. That was a do or die situation - as far as they knew, this was their last opportunity to win the game (before Sirianni incredulously handed them another chance with the fourth down shot play). At that moment in time, it was make this first down or lose the game, and Love and the Packers completely botched it in the biggest of moments. 

There's no sugarcoating that the offensive line has been a disaster. I never would have imagined such a precipitous drop in performance by this group compared to last season. Injuries that took away precious training camp and regular season reps and forced shuffling of positions is surely one issue, but the unnecessary juggling of interior line positions, platooning, etc is perhaps even more of a factor. It seems apparent they've screwed up Jordan Morgan for sure, unless of course he's just really not that good at any position. Moving Jenkins to center has proven to have weakened two positions, as Aaron Banks has not distinguished himself in any positive manner for the team. Between injuries, penalties, missed assignments and getting blown up by defensive linemen, both Banks and Morgan have proven to be big steps backwards (I'd take Jon Runyan back over either of them right now). Banks is supposed to be a bully but we've seen him bullied himself. Despite the guard/tackle debate, Morgan was always a tackle in my eyes, simply because I didn't feel he was powerful enough or had the attitude for the interior. You saw him get completely blown up on the disastrous fourth down shotgun handoff to Jacobs.

Underrated play of the game last night? Lane Johnson hustling over to push Keisean Nixon out of bounds after the fumble pickup. Would have been a touchdown.

Why is Christian Watson on the bench when they need a big fourth down late and instead the throw is to a rusty Bo Melton, who hasn't practiced at wide receiver since camp? Why not call up one of the receivers on the Practice squad?

The Packers defense got their groove back. They looked like the unit that dominated the Lions and Commanders to start the season. Wyatt and Wooden were in on 8 tackles combined, a big factor in holding Barkley to 60 yards and a 2.7 yard per carry average. Phenomenal job there. The secondary didn't seem to miss Nate Hobbs. Sometimes it takes injuries to fully demonstrate who really should be playing (Valentine). CV is nonsensically fearless back there - a great quality for a cornerback.

#GoPackGo

 

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

0 points
 

Comments (196)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Lare's picture

November 12, 2025 at 05:58 am

They have offensive linemen who can’t block, wide receivers who can’t catch and a kicker who can’t kick. They have an offensive coordinator who can’t call plays and a Head Coach who won’t change what he’s doing even if it’s not working.

Other than that they’re doing okay.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:24 am

Agreed! With all that said, Lare, you know its a REALLY bad day when the Packers Special Teams outperforms their Offense!
Imagine that!

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:09 am

Al, do you realize that Matt may have learned his lesson? In all his previous "winning" seasons he's showed everything in the scheduled games and had nothing left for the games that really matter and the playoffs. As you said, the Ds can call out the plays before they run them. Heck, I can call them even. Now, he's just trying to sneak into the playoffs and surprise everyone with his outstanding strategy.

There's my glimmer of hope to get me through the rest of the season.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:39 am

C'mon Steve!
Doesn't every Head Coach have to at least pretend that they'd like to win once in a while?
It seems like LaFleur never got that memo!

0 points
0
0
JerseyAl's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:01 am

That's an incredibly optimistic theory - lol!

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:36 am

Kind of tongue in cheek optimism and grasping at straws for a bright side.

What else can a fan do?

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:02 am

Yup, lose as many games as possible to sneak into the playoffs as the #7 seed, no one will suspect it :/

0 points
0
0
Savage57's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:10 am

Critical mental mistakes in critical moments across the board on offense and by the coach have submarined this team's season.

The responsibility for both fall upon the same narrow shoulders.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:43 am

"The responsibility for both fall upon the same narrow shoulders.
Wouldn't that be the same guy that decided to put a screen door in that submarine?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:43 am

Not calling the TO on the Game defining 4th down attempt almost seemed like a Vegas proposition. Pee Wee League kids would have the awareness to kill the clock and reset the group.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:38 pm

I know—absurd is it not?

0 points
0
0
x24's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:37 am

"provide Love with quick throws he can complete and not have to wait for downfield routes to develop."

Bingo. Especially with substitutions on the offensive line. Up the tempo. Be decisive. Get rid of the ball.

0 points
0
0
TKWorldWide's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:34 am

Are the quick throws always available?

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:03 am

Great point. We don't seem to train our WRs to make the quick route a thing. I don't know if it is a WR coaching thing or play design thing. The closest we get to that is the overused WR screen. Opposing LBs have one less thing to worry about with our offense.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:44 am

They set up the stop N' Go routes. Golden's return is critical.

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:52 am

Decisive? That's one quality MLF simply doesn't have. lmao

0 points
0
0
TKWorldWide's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:57 pm

How can you be so sure?

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 13, 2025 at 01:17 pm

Could be the deer in headlight look perhaps.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:37 am

MLF - Shake and No Bake.
Too Late - The writing is on the wall.

So when your blasting MLF on being to conservative.
Bombs away; replaced any misdirection and
commitment to his " complicated scheme".

I'm Convinced that Love isn't Rodgers period.
Rodgers would be all over these WRS for dropping balls.
And if he had any surgeon skills, forget going deep.
So I ask you and others again.
Was the wait worth it?

Banks and Morgan must go.
Lombardi knew-how important
Guards were to the run game.
The scouting reports were correct.
Why didn't Gute realize that when he
wanted them.

Sometimes it takes injuries to fully demonstrate
who really should be playing. ----
I've realized that in the 4th Quarter
when Jenkins went down.

0 points
0
0
TKWorldWide's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:36 am

Rodgers was famously critical of his receivers making mental mistakes like wrong routes, not physical mistakes like dropping passes.

Never thought I’d be defending Rodgers. Now I’ll just slink back into the darkness. 😂

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:51 am

Hell, TKWW, I'll defend Rodgers!
Rodgers wasn't afraid to change the play at the line of scrimmage either, thus LaFleur's 13-3 records the first few years! How often do we see Love making those changes?
And, that's it, I'm too damned fat to slink!

0 points
0
0
Boneman's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:54 am

Al, I think MLF is at the point where he needs to go on a performance improvement plan. He seems to have fallen into an entrenched defensive position and is stubbornly holding off from obvious solutions in order to justify past decisions. Here are some points of emphasis I'd guide him towards.
1. First things first. What are the top issues that are causing the offenses poor performance? List three and address them. Possibly...
a. Settle the offensive line. Best guy at each position are the starters and that's it.
b. Predictability. Recognize that we've reached a point where the defense is dictating play calls and change it up. Every time the Eagles went into a two deep look the Packers ran the ball. Jordan even canned into a run multiple times. Just what the defense wanted. Change it up!
c. Be yourself and have fun. It really seems that Matt is trying hard to live up to something that isn't him. As the leader he is so worried, stressed and grim that his team can't play loose. Take the reigns off, ask the team how they want to do things and bring back the fun!
2. Be proactive. Don't react to everything, dictate. You have a good and talented team, use them to their potential.
3. Keep the end in mind. Where do you want to go and how do you and the team get there. It starts with your positive attitude every single day. Be consistent about what is important andstay that course.
Easy peezy! GPG!

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:55 am

I like it Boneman. I think I see this with Dan Campbell and his leadership with the Lions. His players - his team plays with an "anything's possible" mentality. Lot of his guys play over their heads because of this confidence.

We see some of that with Hafley's defense. He had the corners play up and challenge Philly's WRs and it paid off. Matt needs to stop trying to perfect his formula that isn't working and work on a new formula or rather new attitude. It must start with the coaches. The players will follow

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:47 am

You had me Bm at "I think MLF is at the point where he needs to go"

0 points
0
0
egbertsouse's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:58 am

Love looks like he is a million miles away when he’s on the sideline. His head isn’t in the game. Reminds me of another 1st round QB who never panned out, Marcus Mariota.

0 points
0
0
Aldo's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:35 am

Love just isn't ever going to be top tier. He's much too tentative and doesn't seem to have command of any given situation or the offense. I simply don't see the confidence and talent necessary to perform at the highest level.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:51 am

He doesn't have Tom Clements to guide him through mentally and set his tempo. Mannion was a good backup QB in the Pros, so he knows the position. Looks like the playcaller is slowing down the operation.

0 points
0
0
BELIEVER's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:52 am

Love don’t have the urgency I see in good and better quarterbacks. I don’t believe if I have ever seen a quarterback with his mentality. Like ho hum oh well, putting the dots together, realizing to call a time out. Earlier in the season he almost ran the clock out in the 4th quarter and only by luck he didn’t and we were able to kick the field goal to win the game. I’m not excusing Lafluer at all and I believe the offensive line will play better when the opposing team don’t have a pretty good idea what the next play is going to be. LaFluer and Love both need to realize their jobs are on the line and show some urgency. I believe our next coach is already in Green Bay, Haftley has that defense playing with urgency. Time will tell.

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:47 am

well said!!! he is definitely a "ho hum" type of guy...show some fire...and as far as being QB smart, he's middle of the road...how did he allow that last play to be run and not call a time out....ridiculous...not to mention MFL didn't seem to call one either....

0 points
0
0
FumundaStank's picture

November 12, 2025 at 03:36 pm

Jay Cutler ring a bell!

0 points
0
0
GregC's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:02 am

All those first half handoffs really did have the feel of "trolling." I remember Bill Bellichick doing an even more extreme version of that tactic one time. On the Patriots' long opening drive, every single play was a handoff. The difference was that the Patriots scored a touchdown and the Packers punted. That's a big difference.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:10 am

Is it trolling or his way of trying to show that his scheme conquers all? His way of saying what late era McCarthy summed up as “just beat your man” and my scheme will do the rest.

In fact what Love needs, what the offense needs, is less LaFleur. The real gist here as I read it is that we need to let our players play without the impediments he’s putting in their way. This harkens back to prior years. It’s not new. So no need to sugar coat, in fact quite the opposite. LaFleur is holding his talent back consistently.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:38 am

Bingo! He's the screen door in the submarine!

0 points
0
0
jlc1's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:08 am

I try to imagine what the Packers do when they self scout. How could they do that, with any integrity, and keep putting this product on the field?

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:13 am

Effective self scouting requires not just integrity but also the ability to fully open one’s mind to the unpalatable. Without that, the lessons that should result are often shed like water off a duck’s back.

If the results are heard, then fixing them often flounders due to a lack of ideas. At the end this was MM’s fate. He knew it wasn’t working, he tried to revamp, but when that failed he was left visibly at a loss. LaFleur seems to have exhausted his creativity or become too convinced he is right and the world wrong. Either way, McCarthy seemed more aware of his failings and LaFleur seems no more possessed of solutions based on results. Perhaps a lack of challenging minds on his staff is now coming back to haunt him?

I suspect both issues are in play here.

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:54 am

Who has LaFleur fired? I don't believe he has fired anyone in nearly 7 years. "Yes men" rarely get fired.

His O coaches do exactly what he wants. I doubt little if any dissent during planning and game installs. Replacing subpar coaches would be an indictment of his work. So the status quo remains a go.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:09 am

Who fired Joe Barry?

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:14 am

No one at the appropriate juncture. He fired Meninga too, but only after it cost him a post season. Perhaps the missing qualifier is “timely”.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:01 am

Andy Reid's crew adds new concepts in the weekly Game Plan. You have to introduce new plays to keep the opponent guessing , or reacting differently to the design.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:17 am

I think MLF has never been good at adjusting when his game plan isn't working. I didn't expect that to last 4+ games though. How bout protect the QB and still get the ball out quickly? Seems that might work.

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:50 am

do the Packers even run a shorter slant pass?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:46 pm

Max protect with Brooks in the backfield, Jacobs is a liability as a pass blocker in blitz pu. He should know how to leak out and run the correct square out from high school. Lead the LB straight, plant the right foot and get parallel across the QB's eyes. Be a helper.

0 points
0
0
tobinrote's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:08 am

am i wrong to notice that it seems many of the usual comment-makers over the years are posting less and less, that Al's and the Great Reynaldo's incisive articles elicit fewer comments. i see it in myself, that fans are just plain so disgusted with the Packers' performance, with a coaching staff that continually lets its players down, with the utter lack of competence at the GM level with Gutekunst's consistent strike outs with first round picks. Jordan Morgan? Poor Josh Jacobs asked to smash into opposing d-linemen who meet him a yard deep in the backfield on what everyone knows is a run up the middle on first down and second and long, after the first down run goes nowhere. I have had four season tickets in my family since the early 50s and i am finally in my old age thinking of unloading at least three of them. it costs too much to watch this kind of shameless incompetence.

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:35 am

I hear you Tobinrote. As a fan, I want to cheer, encourage and rejoice in my team's success and still acknowledge their great effort in loss. My Blue Jays were a perfect example of that this year. Great run behind some gritty play pushing to an exciting game 7 finish. They played to a higher potential and that defined success for most of us fans.

I don't want to spend my mornings bitching and moaning about a team and staff that can't find its way. We are not coaches to know what is truly going on but our eyes recognize when something isn't working. The players aren't executing, the coaches aren't putting the players in the best position to succeed and there are gaps in the talent. This season will tell us if we have the leadership to right the team and reach our potential - whatever that potential might be.

Go Packers

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:23 am

The exciting times are when you see progress. When your teams horizons are waxing not stagnating or receding. Winning everything is hard to do and short lived. It’s the journey to earning a real chance that is most enthralling, The hard part for me is that we see LaFleur simply repeating despite changes in rosters and even coaches.

What we are saying about this offense was what we were saying in 2022 with Rodgers, half of 2023 and last year. That gets old when you see it coming inexorably, only to be proven correct. There is nothing going on now that hasn’t been previously except that the D is now not a problem.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:39 am

One thing to remember is that the posters here are mostly older and have seen much harder times for the Packers...we've seen really bad football, and this isn't that, yet. I'd argue many of us get put off by bullshit (like hyper positivity and hyper negativity) in the postings. I've been around for quite awhile--well back into the AllGBP days--and my posting is always streaky. It depends on how busy I am with work, friends, and family, but also how interesting and stimulating and balanced the conversation is here. Usually it's very good. It's lacked some of the latter here recently and been ridiculously repetitive. I spend more time reading the snap counts articles because it's actually about the games and not so many individuals reposting long diatribes and peddling narratives. It always shifts in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of way.

I tend to ride the middle...not too high, not too low. I love the Packers. I desperately want to see them win. I also understand where football fits in the grand scheme of things...especially now that we're seeing the inevitable impacts of legalized gaming and gambling on the integrity of sport in general reappearing.

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 13, 2025 at 03:58 am

^^This^^

Plus, we older fans have seen some terrible coaching, clueless play callers, and baffling drafting.

At least the economics of the sport have changed, so we no longer have to deal with nipfarthing GMs.

0 points
0
0
JerseyAl's picture

November 14, 2025 at 09:07 am

The only commenters we've lost are the spammers and the idiots we've booted. Otherwise, comments have increased. Almost 200 comments on this post as of this writing!

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:12 am

It is hard not to type anything negative about this team after that game. Although they did surprise me with a great defensive performance. I thought that Barkley would have run through our D and their WRs would have feasted on our secondary. Hafley and the boys played championship D.

The rest boils down to our O-line. A solid run game, consistent QB play and effective play calling stand on the foundation of your O-line. Runs got blown up, Love had minimal pocket to step up into and execution of plays collapsed early. Lafleur obviously needs to redesign his gameplan to recognize this weakness. But he, Steno, Butkus and whoever need to rework the pieces to find a better combination. We have guys (albeit they are all tackles) we just need 3 strong interior players not called Morgan and maybe not called Banks.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:09 am

The combination -
If he's not needed at center.
And Rhyan works out.
Move Tom to RG.
The dL fronts keep running stunts.
The packers must put Tom inside.
Tom will finish his career inside.
Move him now!

0 points
0
0
crayzpackfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:58 am

Tom inside? That is the nuttiest observation I have ever heard. Especially at RG. You're trolling right?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:16 am

Tom is a finesse guy, not a guy to go 1:1 with the bull rusher. Gutedkunsk delivered the product. Morgan has to stay at LT, period. The Banks deal was always shaky.
You pay big bucks to Probowl level guys. It tells you these are used car dealers running personnel. Get some hungry people into the management team. This back to the 90's illusion of success is predictably stale. Even Wolf, said good luck with this guy. He didn't see it either.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:55 pm

Most said he would end up at c in the NFL.
We've seen Tom hold up wherever they put him.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:11 am

"I thought that Barkley would have run through our D and their WRs would have feasted on our secondary. Hafley and the boys played championship D."

One under the radar thing that not many have talked about is that this was the first game that they had 5 DL suited up for the game. I think that was the difference. The DL didn't get wore down and were fresh the whole game.

0 points
0
0
packerbackerjim's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:21 am

I used to criticize MLF for not having a Plan B, and now I beginning to think he doesn’t have a Plan A. There was a moment the camera caught MLF working on his tablet when the play went awry. He wasn’t watching the game, in fact had his back to the field of play when he could have been communicating his concerns to an assistant. In short, micromanaging and losing the big picture. At the risk of being hyper repetitious, Policy is watching this stuff.

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:59 am

0h yeah that caught my eye. Talk about bad optics! Noone wants to see your coach looking like a kid who lost his homework. Wow.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:31 pm

If it had resulted in a visible change and positive results, I’d be cheering him on for doing that. I don’t care about the optics, just the outcome. However, doing it and nothing obviously changing just looks as sad as the resulting offense was.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:57 am

The Bo Melton(down) absurdity made me ill. It reminds of people who wish to prove how clever they are. Clever like Meyer’s over Creed Humphrey, …Dillon, Mo Drayton and a 100 more examples. The first rnd pick standing on the sidelines as Meltdown drops a critical pass. C’mon already.
My expectations were exceedingly high this season, but despair is knocking on the window.
Beat the Giants
Go Packers!!!

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:05 am

I meant 2nd round pick…

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:41 am

Melton has barely played WR or practiced it. A bit tough to criticize a drop. Kraft had one equally bad recently, as has Doubs. In fact, who hasn’t? Don’t get lost in the weeds of minutiae, which is what blaming Melton is. That is Losing the woods for the trees. Ask instead how it came to be that a CB catching a 4th down might have represented a get-out-of-jail moment?

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:27 pm

If anyone has earned his salary this year - it's Bo Melton. There are players on the team who earn far more than Melton but have done far less.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:24 am

#9 was very close to a first round pick ;)

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:53 am

Starrbrite,
I was standing in my living room, screaming at the TV, "Where's Watson"!
Almost refusing to believe my eyes.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:37 am

Me too Houndog.
Coldworld missed my point—I wasn’t criticizing the drop, it was the fact that Melton was the target and not Watson.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:11 am

My apologies for that. I’d agree. We often seem to use strange choices to run certain routes on attempted big plays and key ones. I’d have to go back and see who was out there and how that unfolded to get into the specifics of that play, but generally, always putting one’s best options out there for critical plays is surely common sense 101? No point in saving them for an after that never comes.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:23 am

Bo caught 2 on 5 targets, for 14 yards. Did he have 3 bona fide drops? One was huge, I maybe remember 2?

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:12 pm

Right On Sic.

0 points
0
0
murf7777's picture

November 12, 2025 at 07:59 am

I’m one who thought above the. 80% confidence level. My early confidence in Jordan Love is waning slightly. He has immense talent, but the mental errors shouldn't still be happening this far into his career. The 4th and 1 gaffe was terrible, and while it was a collective failure, it shines a light on Matt LaFleur's poor game management and play-calling. That said, Love isn’t the main problem, that falls onto the OL and injuries to the WR/TE room.

LaFleur has to give up play-calling. Period. The offense is stagnating. Is Brian Daboll a realistic replacement for the OC role? His work with Josh Allen is legendary, but his recent results in New York are a red flag. We need an offensive mind who can truly unlock Love's potential. Any thoughts on a replacement?

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:08 am

Murf—I would welcome Daboll…he has a fire about him. His defense let him down…he wouldn’t have that problem in Green Bay.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:07 am

Sometimes I wonder if that 'Fire' in Daboll is a leaking acetylene tank waiting to explode, other than that he was a good O/C and has been called a QB guru!
He took a rookie in Dart and flew right past Jordan Love in performance terms, but also got the kid multiple concussions in a just few games, and that can't last!
The flip side would be that he'd definitely hand out ass-chewings for poor performances, on the sidelines, and throughout the game. Two or three false start penalties from one guy wouldn't be an issue with him!

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:34 am

No brakes all acetylene torch? I'm here for that ...

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:05 am

Daboll would require Stenovich return to OL coach or sent packing. Daboll would clearly want his own staff as the OC. That amount of "change" would overwhelm and greatly frighten LaFleur.

The only way Daboll would come to GB would be as the new OC and a dismissed LaFleur.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:39 am

Agree Lambeau—LaFluer would never agree to this and would probably be intimidated by Daboll.

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:03 pm

oh yah, he would for sure be intimidated by Daboll...he looks confused and meek now on the sidelines it would really be something to see him with Daboll alongside....He would probably make Daboll sit up in the booths...

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:35 am

I'd be ok with that.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:07 am

"His work with Josh Allen is legendary, but his recent results in New York are a red flag."

Daboll? Maybe. Josh Allen is Josh Allen though. Jaxson Dart has been really good. Both Allen and Dart fly by the seats of their pants and play like their hair's on fire...is thIs success because Allen/Dart is Allen/Dart and not because the coach is Daboll? Daboll couldn't get anything going with any consistency with Danny Dimes, and now Jones is raking in Indy. Is he making it go because nobody can stop Jonathan Taylor? I think that has a lot to do with it, but he's making it go.

"That said, Love isn’t the main problem, that falls onto the OL and injuries to the WR/TE room."

I think what we're really saying is that a QB like Love--who isn't a generational talent--is more like Goff in that he needs a stronger supporting cast. I think Love is good enough to win with, but they need to prop him up more than QBs who are the elite players in the league. The margin for error in how you build your team and how you play gets way narrower when you're playing with a Jordan Love and not a Pat Mahomes.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:02 am

What does LaFleur have to recommend him if it’s not calling plays? Motivation? Personnel management? Tactical acuity? Game management? Discipline?

If LaFleur isn’t the one to call plays then he isn’t one for us at all. At some point one has to stop the echoes of excuses that don’t remotely stack up. This is one of them.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:38 am

Yup. If MLF just called plays he might be ok, but the extent to which the league has him figured out right now reduces that value.

Is there such a thing as giving a soft benching to a HC?

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:32 am

JL10 is certainly not being protected well, not being given plays that make any sense knowing what this team can and cannot do, and the feedback he's getting from HC and other coaching staff is unknown to us but can be reasonably guessed at being at least somewhat unnerving.

Obviously something needs to change. I am of the opinion that player personnel scheme and playcalling could turn this around, but if people need to be moved you'd be better off keeping JL10 and either demoting MLF to OC or removing him entirely. I haven't liked that idea but it's been spelled out here pretty well lately. Fortunately no decisions along those lines will be made based on anything I think so I don't have to worry about it, I just hope they start playing better. I think last night there was good player effort for 60 minutes, the first time I've seen that all season. Got beat fair and square, all over our offense, for a variety of reasons. But if the players all play hard for 60 minutes every game that at least gives coaches a chance to make improvements.

0 points
0
0
mjbrogno's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:03 am

I’m starting to think that Love does not have the in game ability to become an elite QB. The physical talent is there. It was a no brainer to call a time out on 4th and one. Please can someone explain to me why Watson gave up on tracking the ball earlier in the game. If he does that, he’s in perfect position to make the catch, OMG!!!

0 points
0
0
murf7777's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:08 am

This is just a guess, but I’d think Watson thought the ball was heading further away from him and felt he needed to play defense so it didn’t get INT. Remember, there was gust of 20+mph winds he was dealing with. Watson has shown time again to track a ball effectively, so I’d blame the wind.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:51 am

Watson doesn’t track well over his shoulders and never has. I wish that throw had been further out, because he excels at an angle, but he has to be able to do better keeping track of straighter throws.

That he knew where the ball was going is evidenced by his change of direction and it hitting him subsequently. He just lost it over his shoulder and didn’t get his body around.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:40 am

#9 cannot track the ball coming straight over his head. Have him run to the left on that play, turning it into a crosser, and he's golden. Speaking of which, #0 doesn't seem to have that particular limitation.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:05 am

As a Packer fan in 49er territory I'm sick as hell of hearing about the Shannahan Coaching Tree and all of its success, but I do have some advice for MLF!

Instead of spending your early week watching game film of your latest fuck-up, watch the weekly game films of your former counterparts from that 'Coaching Tree', many of them seem to be fairly successful!
Maybe, just maybe, you could get some ideas on how it actually works! We don't need a 'Genius', just a Head Coach and O/C that knows Football!

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:49 am

Shanahan is winning with a terribly beat up team. Start there.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:21 am

Oh, Dobber, I know, I'm force-fed that shit every day, and I'm sick of how despite all their injuries on both sides of the ball they continue to play decent football.
They've lost some games but have never looked as inept as GB has the past few weeks.
They're playing without any of their starting receivers, Kittle was out for 4 weeks,their two best defensive players are lost for the year, and their starting QB has been out since Game One! Hell, they were in local bars looking for help.
Damn! LaFleur would be a in a closet, crying!

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:41 am

Scheme only gets you so far. Indeed scheme just shapes the playbook and personnel groupings. It doesn’t stipulate who will be used or what plays are called and when.

Ultimately it’s the coaching that gets the most out of both schemes and players. There’s a vast amount of difference between what one coach is capable of achieving and what another can.

Rosters matter, but rosters change. When a coach can out perform his rosters more often than not then he’s the real deal. LaFleur has a long record of not managing to do that over a period long enough that the roster has changed completely.

Whatever Gute is as a GM, we can see what LaFleur has managed to deliver clearly now. That is why he must go and any further change will mean little without that.

0 points
0
0
PeteK's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:05 am

I guess you didn't see the Niners recent game. Come on, we haven't played up to expectations , but inept is way too harsh.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:41 am

We already have the horribly beat up team, starting to win sounds like a good idea 😁

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:23 am

Always appreciate Al's assessments and I've been very critical of MLF. But, though MLF is a problem, I still don't
see a comparable analysis/critique of Gutekunst. He seems to get more of a pass. I have been very concerned about his poor roster construction, particularly the current O-Line. He was supposed to improve an already struggling O-Line. That task was very critical to the competence of the entire team and we now have a failed
foundation, an exorbitantly expensive failure that cannot be corrected for several years because of Cap pressures.

I also try to imagine how it feels to be Love and Jacobs-both are severely limited in what they can produce on the field because of that failed Line.Their professional reputations are being impacted-Love is being excoriated by fans.
Yes, he's jumpy, 'can't seem to see the field' etc but he was pressured 40% of the time. Rodgers was very average when under pressure. He had the luxury of a competent Line, an All-Pro LT and exceptional receivers.
We need to have the courage to learn about and openly discuss the impact Murphy had on this team-this includes the type of GM and HC he chose and why. We can't allow ourselves to pile on one person (MLF) while we give a pass to 2 additional contributors to the decline of the Packers-Gutekunst and Murphy. Murphy is gone-we should not be so tentative about discussing his influence and how it harmed the team. Open, fair discussions will help with the anger and hopefully help us recognize and not accept another of his type in the future.
This experiment was bound to fail but it has been accelerated and exposed by the resurgence of the Northern division.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:48 am

It's hard to claim Gutey has failed to acquire talent. Obviously Banks hasn't played well yet. Hobbs has had a bum knee, possibly the whole time he's been in GB. Overall, the moves Gutey made should have improved our O line. Player development, evaluation, and usage is not on Gutey.

A bold move like restoring our GM position to an actual GM may not be in Policy's DNA? I don't know. I think this is important, and it's been discussed here quite a bit (MM, not Policy as much)

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:16 pm

I wouldn't discuss Gute's failings unless a saw a pattern over 7 years. He has failed in early rounds-that is well- known. It has compromised Vet depth. Re; Hobbs-he was signed to play outside corner-a position he did not play on the Raiders. He was a slot corner. He has failed as perimeter corner in GB, so now Gute has over-paid for another slot corner. This was a waste of money.
How does one 'develop' Banks-he is an expensive whiff-Gute should have known he was injury-prone and likely riding on the reputation of T Williams. How do we explain Morgan?I've listened to Mike Wahle's analysis of Morgan and he stated Morgan was involved with many break-downs.
How do we explain the choice of Belton? These are the players, including Monk who will remain on the O-L when Walker, Rhyan, and Jenkins likely walk. How does a new coach deal with this weakness?

0 points
0
0
Rhah's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:13 pm

I agree. There are multiple failures on the o-line. I would firstly replace the coach. Ultimately, he needs to get the right people to the right position
It looks like a mess right now, and Banks looks like a bust.

0 points
0
0
TXCHEESE's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:28 am

MLF needs to take a long look in the mirror. There was a story earlier in the week about Dan Campbell after the Lions loss to the Queens. He felt like the offense needed something to get them in rhythm, so he decided to take over play calling duties against Washington....lo and behold 44 points!

Mike grow some onions and be bold. What you're calling is not working and it's not going to work unless West Texas A&M is on the schedule. You better make a change or Policy will make if for you.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:05 am

Dan Campbell has the luxury of a good owner, a GM who brings him competent players (compare O-lines) and they are all in alignment.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:49 am

There seems to be a consensus that MLF spends entirely too much time in the mirror, thank you very much.

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:39 am

"He's surely aware of the all the fan and media yelling and screaming about his underperforming and conservative Packers offense..."

I think there's a total lack of awareness of anything outside the bubble, He is so focused on his perception of what he believes is the answer. Any legit self-scout should provide guidance to change, but continues hammering that square peg into a round hole after telling the opposing team, "watch, I'm going to hammer this square peg into a round hole."

Then, game-time reality hits. His internal dialog must be excruciating. Via facial expressions and body language we see paralysis takes control, then it's as if he's going to cry or he's looking for the 101st Airborne to drop in to help. Sometimes there's a hint of a confused Bret Bielema staring into the sun on that well-groomed face. If only he could integrate the Mike Sherman aw-shucks crossbody air punch.

Matt is drowning and he can't see the rescuers in the boat next to him. If he were playing a video game, I'd expect him to shake the controller and yell "why isn't this offense working!"

Still not giving up on this team. GPG

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:04 am

I generally agree on the self-insulating bubble. However, this story is getting out well beyond the local pundits. I came across this piece yesterday, for example: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/nfl/article-15280585/amp/giants-brian-...

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:51 am

Pathfinders lead the way!

0 points
0
0
Ray L 1122's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:42 am

Jeff Hafley for Head Coach. Vote here!

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:48 am

Hafley is too decent to take that job-he will go another less stressed team with a functioning O-Line

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:01 am

If Hafley is really who we think it should be, then pull the trigger now and see how he affects things beyond the D. We have Luke Getsy and Hackett on the staff. Offer one of them the offensive play calling and a chance at redemption. Shake this moribund carcass up. Maximize the chance of keeping Hafley while getting a better picture of what he could bring as a permanent HC. Hafley has his people on D to manage that.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:53 am

I'm not in favor of making that move mid-season, but if that's what it takes to keep him in GB? Certainly.

0 points
0
0
splitpea1's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:44 pm

We need an entire offensive makeover, and relying on holdovers from the Rodgers era who have failed miserably in other recent coaching jobs isn't the answer. Or maybe it's a possibility, but only if we lose two of the next three games and a non-competitive atmosphere begins to develop. But mostly I would rather let the season play out, let the dominoes fall, and make sure you get it right with all the coaching and management decisions that need to be made.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:05 pm

I agree. Let the season play out and hope Policy is getting sound advice as to how to make important changes.

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:39 pm

Actually the risk - reward would be favorable if the FO went in this direction.

0 points
0
0
zoellner25's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:44 am

Shotgun running plays should be banned by the league

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:11 am

The tush push needs to be banned for real.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:55 am

Can't officiate it. Originally the concern was player safety, long established precedent that you can't push or pull teammates forward. Amazing nobody's gotten hurt on it so far ...

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:49 pm

The officiating of the play is horrible. I have seen so many times they have had players lining offsides, false starts. I think it was their last game they had a fumble and they ruled forward progress or something.
I really don't know how there hasn't been an injury on the play honestly. With the eagles OL essentially diving down with their heads down, and a lot of DL doing the same thing. I could see a serious injury happening.

0 points
0
0
joejetson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:05 pm

Or at least call the penalties when the Eagles' line jumps early.

0 points
0
0
ricky's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:45 am

When Lafleur was OC in Carolina, he relied heavily on a "run first" offense. Now that he has Love, rather than Rodgers (who was much more independent, and would change plays as he looked over the defense), he has gone back to that game plan. But because someone doesn't seem able to develop or understand the best position for their OL (I have to give major blame to both Butkus and Stenavich for the performance of the OL), there are no holes for Jacobs, the offense stubbornly runs the ball on something like eight of the first twelve offensive plays of the game, and almost always on first down, they become predictable and easily defended.
Add in that a four man rush was constantly getting pressure on Love. and the total lack of adapting new approaches to make life easier for Love, as usual, and this is reminding me more and more of late career McCarthy.
It has been seven years, and Lafleur has not grown or evolved as a coach. Instead, he has gotten more stubborn, doing the same thing again and again and hoping for different results. And we all know what that defines. Time to move on, put Stenavich back in charge of the OL, get a real OC who can help make adjustments during the game, and reverse the underperforming this team has displayed again this year.
'

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:48 am

"When Lafleur was OC in Carolina"

I think you meant Tennessee, but the states touch each other (in a purely platonic way, of course), so I get it.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:15 am

Which one is the big spoon in that relationship?

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:41 am

It was Tennessee, for one year.

He was also on the Atlanta staff that gave up the 28-3 lead in the SB to the Patriots, and McVay 'voluntarily' let him leave LA to make the lateral move to Tennessee in 2018.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:56 am

LaFleur didn’t impress many in Tennessee either. Their 2018 offense he led ended up ranked 27th in scoring and 25th in yards per game. He took a large part of the season before he feature Derek Henry and virtually everything good came from Henry and the running game after that.

By the end of the season, LaFleur was generally considered underwhelming despite injuries to players like tight end Delanie Walker and quarterback Marcus Mariota. He reportedly did not get on with Vrabel and it was speculated that he was not going to survive there. In the event Murphy signed him away.

In 2019 the Titans offense took off under his internal replacement, Arthur Smith, who had been TE coach and OL coach before LaFleur was appointed. He was not a LaFleur hire. Henry had a career year in 2019, while Mariota was eventually benched for Tannehill.

No one in Tennessee saw LaFleur as an offensive genius. It was Murphy who pronounced that and the local accredited media then pounced on that and repeated it ad nauseam. The myth never was grounded in on field results. It was purely Murphy and accredited media deference fueled by blind hope.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:57 am

Well, those two States used to not have a border between them ;)

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:50 am

What if coaching cannot fix the O-L? Do you have faith in Morgan. Banks, Belton becoming something better?

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:10 am

Banks has been better. The question with him is can he get healthy? The others are young. I’m not sure Belton is a T ideally or Morgan a G. The Eagles came to believe Kinnard is G, but we don’t seem to agree. I don’t know if they will live up to their drafting, but it’s pretty hard to see different coaching being worse at developing IOL talent across the board or at deciding who to train and practice where. I do know that we need to try something different because this coaching team is consistent in the wrong way.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:17 am

I think Banks needs a few games off to get healthy honestly. Play Kinnard there maybe? Since Banks has been here he has been injured in about every way possible.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:01 am

I agree. That’s not a defense of Banks’ value as a signing, just increasingly obviously the only way we will get the most out of him that we can. In general I think we’ve been too willing to play players that are diminished too early, preventing recovery and possibly better options on the day.

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:20 am

The only way not to succeed is not to try.

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 13, 2025 at 04:11 am

I kind of like the sentiment, but there are many ways not to succeed. Not trying is only one way.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:57 am

I think all three remain question marks. Banks is Banks, and we don't know for sure what the injuries have done to him, is he hurt, restricted, or just bad?
Morgan and Belton were good College tackles now playing out of position, how do you judge? Ross Verba might have been the last guy to make that switch and really succeed. They were juggled all over the line in camp and its been musical chairs ever since. Is that the problem or do they belong at Tackle? We don't know, but does the coaching staff, or have they tried?
Also, If you look at Jenkins' stats at center, they're not very good, is that the problem?
Its a mess!

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:02 pm

If these players cannot improve utilizing who and what is in the building, it's up to them to do so via getting outside help. I'd still like GB to do the develop part of draft and develop - and add Monk to that list. We have several other O linemen to add to that list, too. And in our recent past 4 huge O linemen that they apparently failed to develop.

Strangely, LB development does not seem to suffer as much.

0 points
0
0
TarynsEyes's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:49 am

How long ago was it that most were behind MLF and wanted Rodgers gone, and believed Love to be the next HOF. Are those thoughts haunting you these days, as MLF proves again, and again he isn't what you thought, and neither is Love, no matter how many stats use for comparison to Rodgers. Love is far from being a Rodgers, period, in fact, his demeanor is closer to being a Jay Cutler, yikes.

It's time to accept that what ever juice MLF and Love were supposed to supply has likely already been squeezed out of them. Their heads have hit the ceiling and the floor might still drop some. Will they win more games? Sure, However, that the prospectus for the future with them as a dual is to win some/lose some, a tad above, a tad below .500 ball with so many other teams passing them by, and yes, that includes 'The Bears'. Double yikes!

Having a 'utility' level OL squad is not going to get the job done. You have to have a couple that are masters of a position. Would you have unsure type workers frame and pour the foundation of your house, of course not, then why do so with the OL? Not a single OL player dominates a position, less the opposing player.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:56 am

This OL is nowhere near a 'utility' Line-it is a failed line and it is a crisis.
It's very difficult to assess a QB who is pressured 40% of the time. Rodgers rarely experienced pressure

0 points
0
0
PearlyBakerBest's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:04 am

Let's at least give credit where it is due. Since'75 is the one who first made the Cutler comparison in the Packers malfunction thread. Pretty lame to make it seem like it was yours.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:54 am

Gutekunst wanted his own dude (QB)-he was new to the job and wanted his stamp on the team. He could have traded up for a WR#2 instead of a new QB. and the Packers would have been in better position for several years.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 08:59 am

Gameplan-
The only part that bothered me was the run to pass ratio. The 2nd and long handoffs. While it felt like they were trying to catch them off guard and trying to get into managable 3rd downs, it was not working. I get that they are really trying to establish the run. But they are not making it work right now. And that comes down to the OL play. The OL has not been playing well enough. Just being honest, I think it maybe time to make some changes there. Banks has not played well. Walker has not played well either. I think Morgan is playing out of Position. I think they need to make some changes on the OL to get the best out of them.

Also I think they just need a little more creativity.

Jordan Love -
Love is the guy. But he is inconsistent. We have seen his great play, we have seen his bad play. This game he could have been much, much better. The deep throw to Watson later, if he throws it towards the sidelines more only Watson can get it. There were a few other plays that he had Watson open, just trust him to make the play. Also there were a number of other plays that he has guys open. He got happy feet though. The OL to me was the root of the problem. He didn't trust their blocking.

And there were plays where Love threw perfect passes and WR's didn't do him any favors. The throw to Watson on the opening drive. The throw Melton on 4th down. The throw to Wicks on the final drive. The throw to Jacobs where he turned the wrong way. There were a lot of great throws that ended up incomplete and ended drives.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:53 am

You’re right RC. I was highly critical of Love, but each of the drops you cite were potentially game changers.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:53 pm

One way or another the receivers have to help their QB out. They haven't done that enough.

Those plays in this game were big plays. Even the little dump off to Jacobs. He catches that he probably gains 15-20 yards. That would have been a game changer.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:05 pm

Agreed that most of the problem was not playcalling. Some was though. Playcalling also needs to align with what this team can and cannot do.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:42 pm

Play calling and execution aren’t independent variables. Good play calling puts players in a position to have the best chance of succeeding. If one is bad, both look bad.

However, when the problem I’ve an extended period is as much what we are trying to do in the first place and who we are using to achieve that, the calling is the horse and the execution the cart being pulled through the mud behind it.

The play calling was not good on Sunday and hasn’t been consistently good all season.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:59 pm

Yeah and I'm not saying playcalling isn't at fault. But to me I just look at the execution part. It doesn't really matter what play is called, if the players don't perform.

I completely agree that playcalling needs to align with the players they have. For example, they have to find the best way to use Musgrave. He is a different skill then Kraft. So they need to find ways to use him to his strengths.

0 points
0
0
AMX's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:07 am

Said it before and I will say it again. MLF sucks! I pray to the football gods Policy doesn't extend him! A handoff out of the shotgun on 4th & 1. Instead of 1 yard now it's 4 yards to run after securing the ball, not to mention the Eagles knew the play which says a lot. I was in disbelief watching the offensive play calling in the 1st half, like there's no way he is actually doing this again? Watson on the sideline with 4th & game on the line? And on and on and on...............

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:14 am

That 4th and 1 works if Jacobs runs to the left. There was a huge opening on that side. The right side of the OL was collapsed and he ran right into it.

Love should have called timeout once the defense was calling the play out, OR possibly should have checked it to another play. (if he has the ability to do that).

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:03 am

Did we have a time out then?

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:08 am

We had 2 timeouts left on that play.

My question I would like to know does Love have the ability to change the play. Like on that play the DB's were 7+ yards off the ball, check to a quick pass for the first down.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:07 am

Thanks for the confirmation, my memory failed me on that one. In that case I agree: I wish he would have called a time out.

As to the options to change, that’s impossible to know generally and in relation to what was called and the options team mates would be prepared for. Perhaps Love just needs to do a Rodgers and ignore LaFleur at times, but that depends on the call being in early enough to tear up I imagine. I’m not sure that’s not a cure we want to encourage long term either.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 02:26 pm

I get it lol.
Yeah now looking back I wish we would have called a timeout.

I wish the reporters we have would ask if he has the ability to change plays. Or if they have an audible play they can change to. We truly don't know what they can do/can't do.

0 points
0
0
Rak43's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:10 am

Absolutely nothing Lafleur does makes sense, from having an injured kicker on the field when you have a healthy one on the bench, to running 3 WR sets the entire game when your entire WR room is banged up, to using Wilson solely as a 3rd down back when he pass catches no better than Brooks or Jacobs and is the weakest blocking back of the three. At this point his tenure is a comedy of nonsensical errors. Can anyone please explain to me how someone can be an NFL offensive coordinator for several years then be a playcalling HC for 7 and still not know how to attack 2 high safety looks? Teams now have gotten to the point that even if they don't normally play two high and are not very good at what they normally play they will just play two high against Lafleur and hold him to a TD and a FG for the game because he has no clue how to attack two high looks. That is beyond pathetic for any offensive coach in the NFL.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:01 am

Nail smacking hammer. Brooks is your pass pro guy and he will not run the wrong pattern on a simple square out. This guy does not seem to play with the hand he is dealt. Philly has exceptional inside guys with Jordan Davis and Jaylen Carter. Ojomo as the 3tech. They give you a wall inside that is hard to penetrate, inviting you to destoy their flanks. The Pack was successful out of an I-look with Whyle at fullback/lead and Jacobs kicked ass. Why was Love not moved out of the pocket?

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:09 pm

Yup. A few simple solutions. Run those until your opponent proves they can stop it. 6 O linemen was also working, except for that one penalty.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:52 pm

Brooks is good at pass protection, but that’s it. He’s not a blocker in a true TE sense in line or in the run game. He’s Taylor. A guy who can get a few yards and delay a DE on a beeline for Love. Every time you do that you are taking a weapon off the field as a runner or as a pass outlet (in front of the sticks). It’s a valuable role, but it should be a very limited one.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:16 am

I would like fans to give concrete advice to a coach who has to play-call with no Run Defense and marginal Pass Pro.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:57 am

Well, the first thing I’d do is go up tempo and short fast passes as the default. I’d have been using a 6th OL for weeks too. In fact, everything we’ve seen against us since Parsons arrived. It’s worked for some not very good opposing OL as well as the good ones too.

That’s without going into the fact that I would be looking hard at whether we are putting the right players in the right places and being too afraid to play others in favor of dinged up preferred starters. I’d also look at the adequacy of preparation and question some concepts.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:09 am

What happens to the up-tempo short fast passes when they are dropped 25% of the time? Watson should know to look for the ball-why was he playing defender? That was unacceptable.
I agree MLF didn't upgrade his positional coaches and lean hard on them to produce-that is a core failure of his.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:57 am

I don’t know, as the sample size isn’t there, which is really the point.

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:58 am

I don't get the big bucks MLF gets, besides, remember, he was touted as one of the NFLs young geniuses...

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:01 pm

Since'61 made the point, Day One. MLF was hired after one interview and then Murphy hogging the headlines.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:09 pm

Murphy is the reason this team has been 'just good enough'
Fans need a history lesson on his impact.

0 points
0
0
Lphill's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:18 am

MLF has lost this team wait until the Bears sweep us its gonna get a lot worse.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:23 am

The Bears are going to come to Lambeau in four weeks at 6-6 and wondering what the hell just happened to a team that was 6-3 and had everyone all optimistic.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:34 am

Those late come from behind wins against mediocre teams at best has really given those chicago fans a lot to talk about.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:20 am

Things just got interesting. Wilson's sitting on Sunday and Jameis Winston's playing. Wilson's a noodle-armed game manager who can still run a little. Winston's a blunderbuss who's going to throw the ball all over the place and force the issue. He makes things happen--good and bad. 'Twill be interesting how the Packers defense deals with an awful lot of unscouted looks from a the Giants.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2025/11/giants-to-start-qb-jameis-wins...

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:14 am

Yes, Winston can throw the deep ball without doubt, but he also needs time. He’s never been very good at fast releases. He could get Parsons excited and he could throw a lot of interceptions if he does. If he gets hot though and has time, Nixon might have real struggles in deep coverage.

Wilson might actually have been a better bet to replicate recent successes against the Packers through quick release play. Winston is a swing for the fences decision by the Giants. If they can’t go deep, it may be regretted.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:40 am

Oh Jesus, Yes, I didn't think of that, no 'O' film to study! Ah, it won't matter, MLF will have plenty of 'D' film to study and then play right into their hands!
Hopefully the Defense comes to play, Winston would normally be able to come up with 13 -14 points, and that might be enough against our offensive Genius coach. Gotta hold them to 6 or less!

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 12, 2025 at 04:30 pm

dobber FTW!

What are the chances Jordan goes full-Jameis *against* Jameis? Man, if that happens, oof, we're talking Book of Revelations type shenanigans. NO ONE has ever gone full-Jameis against Jameis.

0 points
0
0
sugarbair's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:21 am

We are all sharing our opinions on what we think is right or wrong with the Packers. Everyone's comments have their merits. We have had 7 years with the current GM and HC. Are we 1 or 2 players or a slant pattern away from a championship? Probably not. My opinion (not that it's worth much), time for a change. GM is in charge of all football operations. Find our next GM. I'm sure there is a list of hot candidates. Let that person find his coach to work with. The roster is not in shambles but needs addressed. Packers should stay competitive during this period. We are not lacking in talent. Regardless, I will still be screaming at my TV or the radio. GPG

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:45 am

Not quite right, Sugarbare! The GM in Green Bay is NOT in charge of ALL football operations, Murphy changed all that, now everyone reports to the President.
The good ol' days died when Ron Wolf retired!

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:14 pm

Need a major restructure before GM is again in charge of all football operations. Will Policy do that? I think that might prove to be more important than the rest of it.

0 points
0
0
J-Rome's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:42 am

I don't understand not using Watson. With Doubs out, he's your best bet. He has the most experience in the offense and his hands have been pretty good since coming back. He's also mostly running deep routes. He does know how to run a crossing route. When things are tough you lean on your best players, not Bo Melton. Love doesn't look confident, but I don't know how he could be confident when his coach is intentionally taking the ball out of his hands until there is no other choice. It all just looks so dysfunctional.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:15 pm

Good summary!

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

November 12, 2025 at 09:43 am

"He needs to CHANGE what they are doing on offense."

There's that "C" word. It causes LaFleur to shiver in a cold sweat. I began to doubt LaFleur's decision making when, after letting Pettine's contract expire, engaged in a long two day sales call with Jim Leonard. LaFleur couldn't close the deal so he spent 30 seconds on plan B and hired the twice failed DC Joe Barry. I was shocked.

It didn't take long to see the "one trick pony" Barry was a disaster. But the "decisive" LaFleur kept Joe flapping in the wind for 3 years and even then, could not fire him either. Matt simply let Crony Joe's contract quietly expire after the Barry year 3 "continuity" experiment failed.

This feels eerily similar to McCarthy's fall...when his offense was stale and he could not muster any meaningful change either.

Change seems to terrify LaFleur...especially on the personnel front. Leaders need to be introspective, constantly evaluating what is working, what is not...be bold and decisive, not a bureaucratic administrator.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:29 am

I have leveled a great deal of criticism against MLF-his refusal to fire low-producers, failure to upgrade his positional coaches and hold them accountable, hire an offensive mind, etc. but
Gutekunst's expensive, failed O-Line trumps everything for me. No team can function without a Run D and marginal Pass Pro. Exorbitant capital has gone to an under-performing FA, a questionable rookie, Belton, etc while Rhyan, Walker, Jenkins will likely find lucrative deals elsewhere. How should a coach be expected to succeed with a failed O-Line?
It all starts in the trenches-I know that is a tired line.

0 points
0
0
Houndog's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:53 am

Dead On, Lambeau, dead on!
My biggest concern now is that other teams are seeing Hafley's success, and if they let LaFleur stick around much longer we'll lose him too!

0 points
0
0
splitpea1's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:43 am

The sad thing about the OL state of affairs is that we're stuck with Banks and his huge contract, hoping that Morgan can take over at tackle, and praying that Tom stays healthy--the rest of them are going to be turned over.
And we don't have a first round draft choice for the next two years, which might come in handy for at least trading down to improve the woeful IOL. So we'd better hope that Gute (or whoever the GM is) can pull a Ted and find gems and quality depth on Days 2 and 3 of the draft.

0 points
0
0
Vachio's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:19 am

If we don't get a better line coach, it won't matter the personnel we have.

0 points
0
0
Vachio's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:18 am

IMO, the biggest mistake was promoting Steno to OC. The line has underperformed ever since. I think a new Oline coach would do wonders. The talent is there, it's just not being used/developed. Exhibit A would be the Panthers. 3 backups starting and they whipped one of the better defenses in the league. We can't accomplish the same feat with our preferred starters. That points to coaching.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:18 pm

If the O line was better with Steno at O line coach, wouldn't that mean Steno is a good O line coach? Couldn't he be assigned to focus on that right now?

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 02:03 pm

I remember him saying during his first season as OC that he no longer had much hands on involvement in the OL coaching as he was focussed on the offense in general. That seems to be supported by the outcomes subsequently. He seems as willing to defer to his staff as LaFleur is to his. It’s not worked. The OL he coached was a different beast as well. Protection was everything, speed and agility was everything and the run game an afterthought and mostly outside the tackles.

0 points
0
0
Nobuttkiss's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:21 am

MLF and coaching staff need to go. (make haslef HC) This better be their last season.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:12 pm

Who will call plays then?
Neither Steno, Getsy or Hackett inspire confidence in me.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:48 pm

If LaFleur goes, the new HC will need to hire an OC and I doubt any of those 3 are that unless something dramatic happens after an in season firing. Promoting Hafley might tell us something about his non DC skill set, but it’s an extended interview on an Interim basis in season.

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 12, 2025 at 04:39 pm

" (make haslef HC) This better be their last season."

I never thought I'd see the day when someone would be calling for "haslef "to be HC, but here we are.

0 points
0
0
Packers0808's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:34 am

I wonder will be said by all the naysayers IF the Packers win say 7 of their next 8 games. Sometimes if not most Love looks dead from the butt up. He just doesn't seem to be able to absorb fast enough the happenings around him.

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:34 am

The thrill is gone
It's gone away for good – B.B. King

Love and LaFleur have been together for 5 years. A relatively long time in NFL years. It appears that the relationship has become stagnant – with minimal growth and development. Perhaps it's time for a no fault divorce – in which Love gets the house (1265 Lombardi Ave.). And LaFleur a new path.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:20 pm

6 years, but yes.

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:33 pm

Tx for the correction. However now feeling a little worse.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:14 pm

I know this is subversive-but I would like to see Love on a better team with a functioning O-L

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:35 am

Thanks Al. I am always grateful that you can put into words what I am always too frustrated and emotional to put in words beyond muttering more than a sentence, jab or two.
And boy did you nail it for me this week. using Melton at the end as the featured wide receiver, really?
Barring a miracle on the O line MLF has to wake the hell up and find some other answers now.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:22 pm

Shouldn't be hard. 6 O linemen. Get the ball out quickly anyway. After that's established try some longer developing routes, and if JL10 has time AND an open receiver, get it to #0 or 9. That should open up opportunity in the run game and add balance back to this offense. Could all happen in one quarter.

0 points
0
0
From the Jungle Room's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:12 pm

There are multiple issues at hand and having an OL that can't run block when your play calling HC insists on running the ball is completely confounding. I'm not sure what is preventing MLF from allowing Love more responsibilty but he's got a QB that has been in the league for 6 years, starting for 3, and at least by now, should be able to have the ability to call out of a play at the line of scrimmage. Love has the ability to "can" a play (which then goes to the next called play) but he's not allowed to audible out of any play, even when it's obvious that he should.

MLF is the play caller and he's got to start opening up and allowing more responsibilities to his QB. If a run play is called and the can play isn't any better, he should be able, by now, to audible a pass play. How does MLF and the entire staff not pick up that Philly knew EXACTLY what the final play call was? Maybe MLF and staff didn't hear the D screaming "Zone Run!" but we know that Love and Jacobs did. Yet, no time out was called (not sure if Love can even be allowed to do that) and no audible was called....even though it was apparent that the called play was doomed. Who knows, maybe he would have stuck with the zone run based on what he was seeing.....but we'll never know until MLF gives him that opportunity.

Bottom line, MLF has got to trust his QB and allow him to make his own in game called adjustments. I'm sure there will be some growing pains if or when that happens, but it's overdue for this to take place.

The more you do anything, the more comfortable you get......it's time for MLF to let his QB play QB. Let our $220M man do more than run called play and hand the ball off, he's not getting any better or learning any more by being this restricted. The Packers organization (and fans!) have enough invested in Love to demand that MLF give him more opportunities/responsibilites to become the best Packers QB that he can be.....bc he ain't gonna get there the way things are right now......

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:24 pm

Excellent comment!

0 points
0
0
13TimeChamps's picture

November 12, 2025 at 12:36 pm

"Love has the ability to "can" a play (which then goes to the next called play) but he's not allowed to audible out of any play, even when it's obvious that he should."

Just curious...how do you know that Love is "not allowed" to audible out of any play?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:11 pm

Apparently, he's not given the authority to call a TO before a shitshow develops on 4th and short, the clock winding down and the defense calling out your play call.

0 points
0
0
NFLfan's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:15 pm

lol

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

November 12, 2025 at 01:17 pm

Timeouts are different then audibles.
I say he still looked for Doubs to much.
And the targets speak volumes.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 02:07 pm

Doubs was missing for about a third of the game. Who was out there that he spurned? He can’t throw to a player on the bench.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

November 12, 2025 at 03:32 pm

Hmm - Wasn't that throw away at him.

0 points
0
0
From the Jungle Room's picture

November 12, 2025 at 04:56 pm

I'm basing this on what the media has been reporting since Love took over for AR.

0 points
0
0
frankthefork's picture

November 12, 2025 at 02:29 pm

Thanks again for the insights Jersey Al.
This team was 1 and 5 in the North last year. I see little improvement with MLF in charge.
Change is the only constant. Change it up-calling plays, game planning, practice - everything, becaue a fish rots from the head down. And this season is not looking any kinder.
Where did Elliot Wolf go? Oh yeah, a winning organization.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

November 12, 2025 at 06:27 pm

Um, he went to the Browns and then the Pats. After terrible years, they are now winning I suppose.

0 points
0
0
joejetson's picture

November 12, 2025 at 10:34 pm

Over the last two games, the only TD's scored were when LeFleur was forced to go No Huddle (late in game trailing).

Why wouldn't they try that earlier in the game? When what you're doing isn't working, you try something different. It's not rocket science.

0 points
0
0
Rhah's picture

November 12, 2025 at 11:09 pm

I have disliked our offensive line for some time now. Signing Banks looks like a mistake. Playing Morgan at RG looks like a mistake. Moving Jenkins to C looks like a mistake. I think it's time for a coaching change there. Something needs to change.

0 points
0
0